Klao comments on 2011 Less Wrong Census / Survey - Less Wrong

77 Post author: Yvain 01 November 2011 06:28PM

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Comment author: Klao 01 November 2011 01:40:12PM 13 points [-]

I completed the survey. Thanks, Yvain, for doing it!

The option "Atheist but spiritual" gave me a pause. What does it actually mean?

Comment author: thomblake 01 November 2011 02:39:16PM 9 points [-]

"Atheist" refers to the lack of a belief in gods. "Spiritual" includes all sorts of other supernatural notions, like ghosts, non-physical minds, souls, magic, animistic spirits, mystical energies, etc. Also, "spiritual" can refer to a way of looking at the world exemplified by religions that some atheists consider a vital part of the human experience.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 01 November 2011 02:58:10PM 7 points [-]

I've noticed some people using "spiritual" to describe notions they consider aesthetically sublime and morally uplifting but not well understood, when they are not particularly motivated to understand them, without any commitment to their being supernatural. This may be what you refer to in your second meaning, I'm not sure.

There is, of course, a lot of potential overlap here with supernatural notions.

Comment author: thomblake 01 November 2011 03:03:57PM 1 point [-]

Yes, that's roughly what I was referring to.

Comment author: Klao 01 November 2011 02:46:52PM 3 points [-]

So, a person who doesn't believe in god, but still thinks that he has an "immortal soul" or something? Thanks for explaining!

Comment author: [deleted] 02 November 2011 12:51:40AM *  7 points [-]

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case it'd refer to someone who is an atheist and materialist ontologically, but who finds aesthetic reward and mental stability in certain forms of ritual and narrative applied to relatively specific domains of life (like holidays, rites of passage and other culturally and cognitively-significant stuff, as long as it's been vetted to strip out the more obvious kinds of crazymaking and irrationality such things can induce).

Comment author: Klao 02 November 2011 01:13:17AM 2 points [-]

I guess, this is similar to the second part of thomblake's comment. Thank you for explaining this!

But, if it really can mean such different things, then that particular in the survey question wasn't formulated very carefully.

Comment author: JoshuaZ 02 November 2011 01:03:08AM *  2 points [-]

My impression was that something like that was intended. However, this seems to be a conflation of different categories. The normal category that occurs in this sort of context is "not religious but spiritual" which seems to generally mean people sort of like what you describe but also who ascribe to various supernatural entities (e.g. god, ghosts, spirits, maybe faeries). When given the choice between "atheist" and something like "no religion" or "none" such people will generally not put down atheist. And such people look demographically very different from atheists and agnostics. See e.g. this Pew study. My impression is that the religion questions were not phrased in a way that showed much familiarity with the underlying demographics or how such questions are generally phrased. In this particular context that's ok because I suspect that there are a fair number of people here who are atheist-but-spiritual under your definition but very few people here who would fall into the "not religious but spiritual" notion that is a subset of the nones in the general population.

Comment author: FiftyTwo 02 November 2011 02:29:04AM 2 points [-]

Certain forms of Buddhism are religous but not theistic, so possibly they'd count? Gave me pause also, a clarification/more options would be useful.