More than 30 percent of my libertarian compatriots (and more than 40 percent of conservatives), for instance, disagreed with the statement “A dollar means more to a poor person than it does to a rich person”—c’mon, people!—versus just 4 percent among progressives. Seventy-eight percent of libertarians believed gun-control laws fail to reduce people’s access to guns.
I... I notice that I am confused. How could such a large percentage of people get these easy questions wrong? Are they interpreting it as a question of signalling without even reaching the point of evaluating it as an ontological statement?
(nods) I would expect so.
But also, even among people who do evaluate it, there are many who will answer strategically... that is, something like "Of course the answer is A. But I believe that if I say A, my answer will be used to defend conclusions I disapprove of, whereas if I say B, my answer will be used to defend conclusions I approve of. So I will say B."
Actually, I wonder now whether anyone has done studies of people's linguistic processing when reading sentences like this. It probably would not be too difficult to determine whether the sentence is being parsed differently in the first place or not, and if so to establish potentially interesting specifics about how the "default" parsing is being interfered with.
Are they interpreting it as a question of signalling without even reaching the point of evaluating it as [a propositional] statement?
That is more or less the human default. And of course you won't get them to admit it if you ask them "are you just signaling?", because that very question and its answer have signaling value themselves.
This isn't a deliberate deception; I'm convinced that most people's brains process language first and foremost as signaling-transactions and not as propositional content.
I'm confused too. Now I'm wondering if that figure seems so unrealistic because I don't expect blatantly obvious stupidity to come from libertarians.
Now I'm confused. I expect any significant political party (or similarly wide grouping of people) to produce blatantly obvious stupidity.
But you've been around here a while, you know all this stuff. So what am I missing? Why would you expect libertarianism to be an exception? (If there is a LW-appropriate answer.)
Anyone who knows enough economics to even bother identifying as a libertarian
I don't find that self identification as a libertarian demands any degree of economic fluency, any more than social conservatism demands familiarity with the contents of the Bible.
I Was Wrong, and So Are You
I think I'd feel a little more encouraged if the title was "I Am Wrong, and So Are You".
It seems to me that the main problem with that article is that the survey questions were badly designed. The writer claims that the questions “tested people’s real-world understanding of basic economic principles” – but in fact they merely tested people’s willingness to interpret vague or misleading questions (with nothing at stake...hardly “real-world”) as the experimenter intended.
Given that ambiguity it is hardly surprising that respondents chose to interpret the questions in a way that flatters their personal ideology. This does not demonstrate that the respondents are irrational in any way; if anyone is irrational it is the person who thinks that these surveys prove such a thing.
A few of the questions are listed with the "obviously false" answer in brackets:
a dollar means more to a poor person than it does to a rich person (disagree)
This doesn’t specify whether it is referring to an average rich/poor man, or as a general condition for all rich/poor men. If the former then it is obviously true, but if the latter then it is false. A highly motivated entrepreneur of a penny-pinching disposition might care more about a dollar than an ascetic monk, for example.
...when
I think and hope you could drastically reduce this effect by giving people an ADBOC box to check. It would promote the idea to the test-taker's attention, and it would be extra appealing since it's clearly the most sophisticated option and shows you're a nuanced thinker.
Unfortunately, real life discourse generally doesn't have a prominently displayed ADBOC checkbox. People have confidently informed me that gun control laws fail to reduce people's access to guns.
I don't remember where I saw it, but after the Gulf of Mexico spill last year there was a poll about offshore drilling asking if the spill had changed opinions on offshore drilling in general. People were asked if the incident made them less likely to support further drilling, more likely to support further drilling, or neither. A significant percentage selected the second, presumably responding as if the question asked if they favored offshore drilling in general.
It's logically possible the spill could have made someone more supportive of drilling. This w...
At this point you are taking a strained interpretation of the sentence that is far from the natural interpretation,
You know, the funny thing is that I don't see it as 'strained' at all. And I don't think it's even that un-exceptional a belief -- though it is a "callow" one. I can rephrase it again and see if it seems more "familiar" to you.
The poor stay that way because they don't care about money.
The rich only get that way because they're greedy.
It's perfectly easy to be happy without money.
interpretation that still requires a off belief based on how most poor people seem to think.
And why, pray tell, would you believe that most people don't think they have valid notions about how other people think? How often, for example, have you heard libertarians talk about (or get denigraded for adhering to) the notion of "picking yourself up off your bootstraps"? The Google Search term poor people don't care about money yielded 227,000,000 hits.
This seems to be more of an attempt to make a specific tribe not as wrong as they were rather than just acknowledge that many members of the tribe are wrong.
... and there's the bias. :-) (One way or the other, someone here is biased and not thinking clearly.)
Now, I've given a great deal -- at this point -- of evidence to affirm my position.
If you really wanted to, I'd be more than happy to go through a list of events in the last few weeks where I have openly and directly disagreed with people who are "in-tribe" to me.
I strongly suspect and would be willing to bet money that if one phrased the question in terms of utility or close to your other wording the numbers would look nearly identical.
So you're willing to bet money that context #1 would be nearly identical to the original phrasing, eh?
How about context #2? Moreover: how about if we were to ask how many people thought context #2 (absent context #1) was at least one way to read the original statement?
(I once again want to point out that context #2, by tying the concept of "value" to "this makes me a better person", isn't suited to questions of utilitarian evaluation. They can't be. It's a virtue-based statement, and it is a modal failure to require utilitarian framing for value-based norms.)
The Google Search term 'poor people don't care about money' yielded 227,000,000 hits.
The Google Search term "poor people don't care about money", however, yields only 7 results for the exact phrase. Many of the highest-ranked results from the search withoute quote marks are indeed from conservative/libertarian sites, but not all of them (e.g., some prominent results are "Minnesota Republicans To Outlaw Poor People Having Money" and "Rush Limbaugh Says Poor Don't Deserve Healthcare") And the vast majority of the millions of ...
A article in the Atlantic, linked to by someone on the unofficial LW IRC channel caught my eye. Nothing all that new for LessWrong readers, but still it is good to see any mention of such biases in mainstream media.
I break here to comment that I don't see why we would expect this to be so given the reality of academia.