billswift comments on "Ray Kurzweil and Uploading: Just Say No!", Nick Agar - Less Wrong

4 Post author: gwern 02 December 2011 09:42PM

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Comment author: gwern 02 December 2011 11:10:26PM 4 points [-]

Of course there is such a risk. We can't even do formal mathematics without significant and ineradicable risk in the final proof; what on earth makes you think any anti-zombie or anti-Riply proof is going to do any better? And in formal math, you don't usually have tons of experts disagreeing with the proof and final conclusion either. If you think uploading is so certain the risk it is fundamentally incorrect is zero or epsilon, you have drunk the koolaid.

Comment author: billswift 03 December 2011 06:19:56PM *  0 points [-]

Indeed, the line in the quote:

argue that an ineliminable risk that mind-uploading will fail makes it prudentially irrational for humans to undergo it.

Could apply equally well to crossing a street. There is very, very little we can do without some "ineliminable risk" being attached to it.

We have to balance the risks and expected benefits for our actions; which requires knowledge not philosophical "might-be"s.

Comment author: gwern 03 December 2011 06:31:36PM 2 points [-]

Yes, I agree, as do the quotes and Agar even: because this is not Pascal's wager where the infinites render the probabilities irrelevant, we ultimately need to fill in specific probabilities before we can decide that destructive uploading is a bad idea, and this is where Agar goes terribly wrong - he presents poor arguments that the probabilities will be low enough to make it an obviously bad idea. But I don't think this point is relevant to this conversation thread.

Comment author: billswift 04 December 2011 12:53:08AM *  0 points [-]

It occurred to me when I was reading the original post, but I was inspired to post it here mostly as a me-too to your line:

We can't even do formal mathematics without significant and ineradicable risk in the final proof

That is, reinforcing that everything has some "ineradicable risk".