katydee comments on The problem with too many rational memes - Less Wrong

80 Post author: Swimmer963 19 January 2012 12:56AM

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Comment author: katydee 20 January 2012 08:07:06PM *  10 points [-]

A lot of this is conveyed via tone and nonverbals. There's a difference between the conventional rushed/confrontational "You're right, but" and what I've been doing, which is more like (Dark Arts ahead!):

"Good point, I think you're likely right." (thoughtful tone)

<intentional pause> (look up and to the left, furrow brow)

"Hmm." (vaguely surprised/"that's curious" tone, tilt head to the side, signal surprise via facial microexpression cues)

"I think that <my actual point> might also apply in some cases here. I can see situations where <my reasoning> would occur-- for instance, imagine if <my example> happened. In that case I think that model might explain what's happening here." (speaking slowly at first, with indecisive body language, then nodding and speaking quicker and more clearly)

<other person says something agreeing with me at least in part>

"Yeah, that's right. Now that I think about it that definitely seems like that's what's going on here." (confident/assertive)

When this works correctly, the person essentially tricks themselves into thinking that they came up with/helped develop the idea that I was trying to convince them of, which also has the useful secondary effect of making them a stauncher defender of this belief once they convert.

Note that this is dependent on situational factors and also (obviously) a Dark Arts type technique. Use sparingly.

Comment author: faul_sname 20 January 2012 09:59:45PM 1 point [-]

I use pretty much this technique, though I was not really conscious of it until you mentioned it.

Comment author: katydee 20 January 2012 10:42:39PM 1 point [-]

Cool stuff. Got any tips for improving it? I sort of lucked into this schema and have only been using it for two days or so, so I'm sure there are ways I could refine my techniques. :)

Comment author: faul_sname 21 January 2012 07:05:28AM 0 points [-]

What you have is excellent. I was going to post a brief reply with a few pointers, but I am very bad at limiting myself to something that simple. What ended up happening was that I wrote a ~1000 word guide to the Dark Arts, which is a bit long for a comment.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 20 January 2012 09:55:06PM 0 points [-]

(nods) Sure, separating the hook from the payload is another way of preventing people from noticing the connection.

Comment author: David_Gerard 20 January 2012 11:43:57PM -1 points [-]

"As you know,"/"You already know this, of course, but" <thing they've shown little sign of knowing but seem to have the prerequisites for>