irrationalist comments on How I Ended Up Non-Ambitious - Less Wrong

113 Post author: Swimmer963 23 January 2012 11:50PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (237)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: pjeby 23 January 2012 10:22:21PM 5 points [-]

Come to think of it, one significant reason why I became apathetic with regards to the activities the "ambitious kids" did in high school is that they annoyed me so much. The idea of spending a lot of time with the kind of people who were in Volunteer Club in high school is pretty unbearable.

Yeah, it's that sort of "annoyance" and "ick" that's the sort of disapproval I'm talking about. When you have one attached to a group stereotype, it means you'll have an aversion to expressing any characteristic of yourself that "means" you'd be one of "them".

For example, at one point I found vegans annoying, and this made it difficult for me to switch to a mostly-vegetable diet, because then I'd be one of "them".

Unfortunately, this ingroup/outgroup signaling by our brains has almost nothing to do with actual morality OR personal utility. Our brains will rationalize like crazy to give us high-sounding reasons for our annoyance, to make us feel we're taking a principled stand somehow, but in actuality the whole thing is moot. You approving of the "ambitious kids" (or your status-cheating valedictorian friend) as people won't actually contribute to some sort of moral decay in society, no matter how much your tribal brain makes you feel like it is.

Comment author: irrationalist 27 January 2012 05:23:57AM 0 points [-]

Yeah. I feel this way about attractive and popular people. I hate them too much to ever consider imitating them. (not sure why I have to give up the hatred though.)

Comment author: pjeby 27 January 2012 09:22:49PM 1 point [-]

not sure why I have to give up the hatred though.

You don't "have to" do anything. But you'll likely experience "ugh fields" and akrasia trying to do anything that will make you too much like an "attractive and popular" person, until/unless you drop it.

Comment author: irrationalist 31 January 2012 12:07:01AM 0 points [-]

true dat.

Doesn't even need to go as far as ugh fields and akrasia -- it's an explicit choice.

Comment author: pjeby 31 January 2012 06:58:19PM 2 points [-]

Er, true, but that's not what I meant. I mean that you might have other goals -- goals you might not expect to be related, but which, as a side effect, might make you "like" (be similar to) those people in some minor way, and end up with a puzzling ugh field or akrasia, if you didn't consciously notice the connection.

This is a common enough occurrence that I have patterns for working on it, in myself and in people who consult me for akrasia problems.