GabrielDuquette comments on I've had it with those dark rumours about our culture rigorously suppressing opinions - Less Wrong

26 Post author: Multiheaded 25 January 2012 05:43PM

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Comment author: [deleted] 26 January 2012 03:50:56PM *  4 points [-]

Did you actually read the abstract dbaupp just linked to?

All sex offenders had received in-hospital treatment for six months to one year and were mostly non-defensive about various forms of enticement, exploitation or entrapment, including threats of harm, used to elicit eroticized responses from female children. A sizable number of incest (61%) and pedophilic offenders (58%) confided they felt powerful and in control. One third of men in each group relied on some element of gratuitous violence (e.g., pushing, grabbing, shoving or spanking) to force compliance from unwilling children.

I'd call that a pretty healthy falsification of "trust."

Comment author: notmyrealnick 26 January 2012 08:47:03PM *  5 points [-]

I did, and if you will note, it does not define such behaviors to be a part of grooming, but rather only says that many (not all) pedophiles have engaged in them. Such behaviors are obviously wrong and I am not defending them. I was specifically talking about the cases where no physical coercion is used, since those are the cases that the whole discussion was about. Cases where children were coerced are wrong and condemnable, but also irrelevant, since the discussion is about sex that the children consented to.

Also, because the abstract was somewhat unclear on whether it considered such behaviors a necessary part of grooming or not, I looked at wikipedia before writing my comment. Wikipedia's definition says that grooming refers to "actions deliberately undertaken with the aim of befriending and establishing an emotional connection with a child, in order to lower the child's inhibitions" and generally describes actions which would be considered positive if not for their intent. Giving gifts, for example. "Hugging and kissing or other physical contact, even when the child does not want it, can happen", was the only thing even hinting of coercion that was mentioned.

Wikipedia can obviously be wrong and is not an authoritative source, but since neither the article nor the linked abstract implied that coercion or violence would be a necessary part of grooming, I felt justified in posting my comment.