SoullessAutomaton comments on The uniquely awful example of theism - Less Wrong

36 Post author: gjm 10 April 2009 12:30AM

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Comment author: SoullessAutomaton 13 April 2009 12:52:32AM *  2 points [-]

Can you name any evidence supporting the necessity of, to pick a moderately troublesome example off the top of my head, copyright?

You seem to be expecting a much higher standard of evidence than I had in mind. Perhaps necessity was too strong of a word. Utility? Benefit? Something like that.

All I ask is that laws have 1) a clearly defined goal of solving a problem that society wants to solve, and 2) empirical evidence (gathered after the fact, if needed) that they are doing what they were intended to do with acceptable side-effects. Marijuana criminalization seems to badly fail at least the latter, and the former depending on what problem you think it's solving.

The examples you use both have straightforward utility (compensating positive externalities, reducing death rates), and mixed evidence of effectiveness (lots of art created but copyright terms of infinity minus epsilon inhibit building shared culture, misuse of legal firearms suggests more powerful weapons would also get misused for greater potential damage but firearm crime correlates poorly to ownership rates).

Prohibiting by default strikes me as untenable on practical grounds, as well as being morally dubious in the extreme. As an aside, however, I actually would support abolishing intellectual property as weakly superior to the current scheme, but I doubt either is optimal.

Comment author: Simetrical 13 April 2009 10:43:04PM 0 points [-]

All I ask is that laws have 1) a clearly defined goal of solving a problem that society wants to solve, and 2) empirical evidence (gathered after the fact, if needed) that they are doing what they were intended to do with acceptable side-effects.

How can you gather the evidence after the fact without experimentation? You have to try out alternative copyright schemes, for instance, to test whether it's actually working well. Otherwise I don't know what you'd consider empirical evidence for success.

Marijuana criminalization seems to badly fail at least the latter, and the former depending on what problem you think it's solving.

How can you tell? What would the actual effects of decriminalizing it be? What would widespread marijuana use do to traffic accidents, the intelligence of the general public, etc.? You can argue that it's surely better than alcohol and tobacco, but the obvious counterargument is that those are too entrenched to do away with (especially alcohol) and therefore have to be grandfathered in for pragmatic reasons.

Who's right? Maybe you're right, but the only way to tell is to experiment. I'd be all in favor of more experiments in things like criminal law, to be sure, but I don't think the evidence in favor of a marijuana ban at present is much worse than that in favor of copyright.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 08 February 2012 02:35:46PM 5 points [-]

As mentioned previously, decriminalization in Portugal serves as a pretty good experiment, and the outcome was much less harm.