Jonathan_Graehl comments on Terminal Bias - Less Wrong

18 [deleted] 30 January 2012 09:03PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (125)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: Jonathan_Graehl 31 January 2012 08:56:04PM 1 point [-]

Sorry I couldn't be clearer. I try to have something definite in mind whenever I write, but I don't do a good job communicating the complete context.

I'm wondering how much flexibility any of us have in really changing our internal satisfaction points. For me, reasoning "this is really for this purpose, so I can bypass it" seems merely as plausible as any other placebo belief - thus my emphasis is on trying to really live that way for a while, rather than forming elaborate beliefs about how we should work.

It's true that there's lots of variation between individuals in what self-concepts they mark as important. And some people seem to be genuinely plastic - amenable to introspective self-therapy. Those few who are can end up in interesting places if they're intelligent and striving toward improving the world, or even just their understanding of it. But as with hypnosis, I always wonder: is the explanation merely in convincing people that they're changed, or are they really changed?

Comment author: [deleted] 31 January 2012 09:09:30PM 0 points [-]

I'm wondering how much flexibility any of us have in really changing our internal satisfaction points.

Probably not much.

For me, reasoning "this is really for this purpose, so I can bypass it" ...

This is what I was having trouble with. It seems like a convincing argument against a bias to know a better way to accomplish its goals and why it's done that way, but then it breaks down on other things that are closer to values.

I've solved the problem for myself by dissolving the qualitative distinction between bias and value. Put them all on a bias-value space arranged by how much we like it and how much it interferes with achieving the other biases/values. If something interferes a lot (like a cognitive error), we call it a bias because following it lowers total value, if something doesn't interfere with much and seems really important (like love or beauty), we call it a value. These labels are fuzzy and transient; desire for beauty may become a bias when designing a system that may be harmed by beauty.

See the new conclusion on the OP.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 01 February 2012 04:36:26AM *  1 point [-]

For me, reasoning "this is really for this purpose, so I can bypass it" ...

This is what I was having trouble with. It seems like a convincing argument against a bias to know a better way to accomplish its goals and why it's done that way, but then it breaks down on other things that are closer to values.

One approach is to make this the definition of the difference between bias and value.

Comment author: [deleted] 01 February 2012 05:31:03AM 0 points [-]

This is a good idea, but I'm leaning towards dissolving the difference in favor of a bias-value spectrum based on value minus sabotage or something.