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Konkvistador comments on Open Thread, February 1-14, 2012 - Less Wrong
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Comments (125)
Feminism and the Disposable Male
Overall this particular video isn't that well made, but I think the basic argument is more or less correct. 7:00 to 8:00 is especially relevant to ethical thinking.
I agreed with the basic idea, although I did have a slight [citation needed] feel. She jumped around a bit without justifying things as much as I'd like. Although perhaps that's ok for what's basically a youtube rant.
Is there any reason people should watch this rather than read Roy Baumeister's (excellent, IMO) 2010 book Is There Anything Good About Men? (which is available online in the usual sub rosa places)?
If I thought the video spectacular I would have made a separate post in the discussion section. I clearly think its not. So why did I post this? Because, I don't recall this specific topic being discussed on LessWrong, so when I saw this video, I wondered about how posters would respond to it.
If you have read the book might I suggest writing a review for this site?
Having been born and raised in Russia, this seems so alien to me. I'd say that here we have a sort of make-do gender equality in many respects, partly a heritage of the USSR.
Oops. On reflection, I misinterpreted her point. I really can't endorse any of the following, except:
I do think her description of the actual success female-first-ism is not very accurate.
Wrong statements preserved for clarity of thread.
Synopsis: Women are more valuable in society than men because women get lifeboat seats and men don't. This different valuation is justified because women can have children and men cannot.
First, this is equivalent to saying that women's first social purpose is child-rearing.
Second, the Youtube video acknowledges that society geared towards women-as-reproduction-machines requires a lot of restrictions on female autonomy. Would you trade a substantial portion of your autonomy for increased priority of your life being protected in high-risk situations? I wouldn't, for the same reason that I think AI implementing the zeroth law of robotics is not Friendly.
Third, one might conclude that restricting female autonomy was necessary for social continuation purposes, but why would individual women want the world to be that way? Society might respond with genuine regret that this is how things must be, but in practice, I've never met anyone who thought that (1) women's autonomy should be restricted, and (2) this was something to regret. In other words, terminal values are not justified by (and don't need justification from) instrumental-value arguments.
I also think that the Youtuber's sex-based child-rearing advice is terrible. As she says, we are teaching men and women to be certain ways. Why should we need to teach what is inherently true?
Also, I don't think female-autonomy is consistent with the political female-first distribution of benefits she identifies.
Uh, she was describing the child rearing practices in a unsympathetic way quite deliberately. It wasn't advice, it was descriptive.
I think you missed the point.
Edit: as discussed below, this is an incorrect interpretation of her comments
Wasn't she saying that the child-rearing practices were a net good?
She talked about preparing men to be the solitary guardian with the rifle and women to take the lifeboat seat at the cost of her beloved's life. I thought she was saying the sex-based child-rearing techniques (like being more attentive to female than male crying) advanced that goal.
From my point of view, no child-rearing advice should suggest treating babies less than a year old differently based on the sex of the child, UNLESS the advice is about diapering.
No. She said it was what we used to need. Her entire video is about how little we value male life and we indoctrinate males to sacrifice themselves for others.