Rationality Quotes February 2012
Here's the new thread for posting quotes, with the usual rules:
- Please post all quotes separately, so that they can be voted up/down separately. (If they are strongly related, reply to your own comments. If strongly ordered, then go ahead and post them together.)
- Do not quote yourself.
- Do not quote comments/posts on LW/OB.
- No more than 5 quotes per person per monthly thread, please.
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Comments (401)
Mark Wilson, Wandering Significance
Curious to know why this was downvoted. Many philosophers use 'scientism' as a term of abuse, and Luke has written about reclaiming the term here. I found this a rather pithy rallying call that antedates Rosenberg's.
Apologies if this is gratuitous but it was my first post!
Unfortunately, the word "scietism" does describe a real set of related failure modes that people trying to be "scientific" frequently fall into, as I discussed in more detail in this thread.
Unscientific does that job already, while the '-ism' suffix denotes, in this case, belief in science. Why let them have a perfectly good word?
Marcus Aurelius, Meditations.
The intended listener must be doing an awful lot of stuff they already know is wrong. Ten days is a pretty short period of time to impress people as a god, and it usually requires more training and practice to get there. Heck, I still only impress people as a god around 10% of the time, and it took me 17 years to get here from when I first dedicated myself to rationality.
Your likelihood of being seen as a god is also dependent on what sort of people are looking at you.
My understanding is that the intended listener was himself. He wrote the Meditations for his own benefit, to be read by himself to strengthen his own resolve. And indeed he does characterize himself as doing a lot of stuff that he knows is wrong.
--George Box
Dupe: http://lesswrong.com/lw/2ev/rationality_quotes_july_2010/285f
-- Babylon 5, "Soul Hunter"
The fantasy doesn't sound quaint - it sounds like a depressing story of inevitable decay and without even the possibility of allowing the creation of new (ensouled) individuals even in the case where those alive remove their vulnerability to death. The Soul Hunter presents a reality where souls evidently become generated each generation in the same way that they were before.
Time and Robbery by Rebecca Ore
This quote hasn't gotten any karma yet-- it isn't funny, and it seems so obvious as to almost not be worth saying.
Still, I suspect that a lot of trouble is caused by ignoring that advice.
-Bertrand Russell
Julius Evola, Occult War, on how to avoid "magic therefore Seventh Day Adventism" kinda errors when interpreting the paranormal.
A few from M:TG flavour text.
When nothing remains, everything is equally possible. ~One with Nothing
"Believe in the ideal, not the idol." -Serra ~Worship
"War glides on the simplest updrafts while peace struggles against hurricane winds. It is the way of the world. It must change." ~Commander Eesha
True in the sense that 0=0.
There is one art, no more, no less: to do all things with artlessness.
-Piet Hein
Why is "artlessness" desirable? AIUI the word means "without skill".
Less is more.
Ockham's razor (the law of parsimony, economy or succinctness), is a principle that generally recommends that, from among competing hypotheses, selecting the one that makes the fewest new assumptions usually provides the correct one, and that the simplest explanation will be the most plausible until evidence is presented to prove it false.
"Artlessness" has a connotation of doing something naturally/smoothly/without guile.
Wiktionary gives both senses for artless. These words change sense over time, too. For instance, it's my impression that once upon a time, saying that a person's work was "artificial" was a compliment, meaning that it showed great skill (artifice). Today it would imply that it was inauthentic, contrived, or a surface imitation.
I suspect that in this context it's meant to connote "attending to the task, rather than attending to your own technique for performing the task."
Nassim Taleb
Taleb runs an interesting Facebook, but if you don't want to get a Facebook account, I expect that a lot of this material will be in his upcoming book about anti-fragility (systems which get stronger when stressed).
I just realized that his domain dependence is equivalent to Rand's "concrete-bound mentality"-- in both cases, it's getting stuck on a single example rather than seeing general principles.
--Joyce Cary
Relevant.
--John Cutter, The Prestige
The context in the movie is a bit different, but it's a nice illustration of how people can let themselves be seduced by mysterious answers to mysterious questions, even when they purport to be "looking for the answer."
I write only when inspiration strikes. Fortunately it strikes every morning at nine o'clock sharp.
-- W. Somerset Maugham
Ohh man, that would be convenient... Actually, given my current schedule, it'd be pretty irritating. I'd spend my mornings sitting in class, fuming that I couldn't just leave and go write all day.
I think what he meant is sit down and get to work on a regular schedule, "inspired" or not. c.f. this.
When learning, you must know how to make the clear distinction between what is ideology and what is genuine knowledge.
There is no such thing as good and evil. There is what is right and what is bad, what is consistent and what is wrong.
-- "Behaviour Guide (in order to avoid mere survival)", Jean Touitou
-Retsupurae
--William James, The Will to Believe II
I like this William James quote and some others, but I guess LW doesn't, considering this comment's score. I could speculate on it as much as I want, but I don't know why.
Edited for wedifrid's uncharitable objection.
It is conceivable that people vote based on quotes and not just the author the quote is attributed to!
~ Pat Wagner
Who cares about "sometimes" when making a decision? What counts is the expectation, what happens on average.
Yes, sometimes investing all your savings in a single high-risk stock picked at random while drunk works better than listening to various experts, researching the relevant literature and diversifying your investments. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Which occasions? If this were a rationality kata I would immediately ask, "What trigger condition does the person need to recognize that chains into using this technique?"
This quote seems to be losing its relevance, since even when I was a college senior you could get help from research librarians via web chat.
We will have to make the web better, then.
Radiohead
This song has been instrumentally useful to me in more ways than one...
~ Collected Sayings of Muad'Dib, Irulan, Herbert elder
Upvoted because I actually think this phrase as my reminder-keyword on appropriate occasions. E.g. publishing an MOR chapter.
I've never been able to make sense out of that. It sounds very tough and definite, but what does it mean?
I guess it's re-stating Antoine de Saint Exupéry's "It seems that perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove".
I agree. It's not... quite.... complete.
Let's chop it off. (Let's keep it at 0 points).
There, now it's complete.
Douglas Murray describing advice from a Holocaust survivor.
Perhaps this should be checked by comparing the number of people who say they want to annihilate a group to the number of attempts at annihilation.
I don't attempt everything I want to do, either. But the number who try to do so given the opportunity...
-- Doron Zeilberger - (see also)
Possibly useful career advice, but not a rationality quote.
--Albert Einstein
Mandatory for science, generally advisable for anything else.
This advice is worse than useless. But coming from someone who was instrumental in the "Physicists have figured a way to efficiently eradicate humanity; let's tell the politicians so they may facilitate!" movement, it's not surprising.
Protip: the maxim "That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" does not mean we should publish secrets that have a chance of ending global civilization.
I tend to think of science as the public common knowledge of mankind. It is obviously not the only kind of knowledge. Also I would say that humans tend to err more often in the direction of needlessly keeping secret important information rather than in the direction sharing it too easily.
Especially since it is easier to fool yourself than others.
"Seek truth from facts"
--Chinese saying
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seek_truth_from_facts
Ludwig Wittgenstein, Philosophical Occasions
Arthur Schopenhauer, Counsels and Maxims
Marcus Aurelius, Meditations.
Theodore Dalrymple
What a cliffhanger.
Humanity becomes more and more of an accessory every day; with increasing power comes increasing responsibility.
— Will Durant, Life, Oct. 18, 1963
Bertrand Russell
That advice seems to be predicated on poor reasoning. Not only are most eccentric opinions that have been held not accepted, those that gain the benefit of the eccentric opinions on their way to being accepted are not necessarily those that first hold them.
I expect the other half of the advice is to fear being wrong. Lowering one's fear of being eccentric could be quite useful if you suspect that the usual opinions are wrong and you can do better.
-- Ronald E. Merrill
(The brackets around "vertebrates" are just for a spelling correction.)
This sounds radical but is if anything far too conservative.
Intelligence and tool using has for millennia allowed us to apply selection pressures which are much more focused than natural selection, and now also allows us to directly edit genetic material in ways which would be slower or even impossible via random mutation alone. Intelligence also allows for the generation, mutation, and replication of ideas, which end up having a much greater, much more rapidly changing impact on ourselves and our environment than the variation in our genes alone.
Those aren't changes comparable to the difference between breathing water and breathing air; they're changes comparable to the difference between non-life and life. The very idea of biological clades becomes more and more fuzzy when we make horizontal gene transfer a regular fact of life for even complex organisms, intermixing DNA from species that haven't had a common ancestor in a billion years.
Mencius Moldbug
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War
quoted from here in that particular form
--Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan
I think there's more to it than that. To label an opinion heresy is to claim that it deviates from the majority opinion, whether or not that is actually the case.
Sort of related: The Bolsheviks were clever to call themselves Bolsheviks; the Mensheviks probably outnumbered them at the time of the split, but failed to contest the nomenclature.
The Bolsheviks had a majority at the party congress where the split occurred. The Mensheviks were a loosely organized group of study circles. They included all sorts of "members" who weren't actually active. They might have more members, but the defined "members" differently, and that definition was in fact the main basis for the original split with the Mensheviks.
-- Nicholas Gurewitch (creator of Perry Bible Fellowship)
– Bertrand Russell, History of Western Philosophy p. 98
Bertie is a goldmine of rationality quotes.
Probably a duplicate, but I can't find a previous version:
H. L. Mencken
It's in the wiki:
(but it's good enough that it can be repeated now and then...)
-- Attributed to Gregory Cochran
On intellectual hipsters.
I would be very interested if anyone has good examples of this phenomenon.
There are a few "triads" mentioned in the intellectual hipster article, but the only one that really seems to me like a good example of this phenomenon is the "don't care about Africa / give aid to Africa / don't give aid to Africa" triad.
David Deutsch, The Beginning of Infinity
Neal Stephenson, The Confusion
Daniel Abraham, The Dragon's Path
-Bengali proverb
--Thomas Sowell
(On a related theme:) Intelligent folk may be better at processing evidence and drawing correct conclusions, but this is to some extent counteracted by the massive selection effects on what evidence they actually encounter.
Other than various social effects ("everyone knows about the Pythagorean Theorem"), in what areas do you think intelligent people generally have worse information than their "normal" peers?
Cracked, 4 Reasons Humans Will Never Understand Each Other
I had already read about the ideas of that Cracked in the sequences (http://lesswrong.com/lw/i7/belief_as_attire/, http://lesswrong.com/lw/9v/beware_of_otheroptimizing/, http://lesswrong.com/lw/i0/are_your_enemies_innately_evil/), but I still found it awesome.
A bit long for a quote. Might have been a good summary for a discussion post link.
Reddit user sciencecomic, in response to a headline reading "'Why Religion Is Natural and Science Is Not'. Emory philosopher Robert McCauley suggests that science is more fragile than we think while religion more resilient – all for reasons coming back to humans' cognitive processes."
You should include a link.
Done.
--Ben O'Neill, here
Considering the above quote can be used to criticize nearly any popular political position I don't think it is inherently mind-killing. Also since we all agree democracy is a good thing this isn't even very political. The original article and context obviously does make it somewhat political.
The same is true of people who call for a dictatorship or any non-democratic form of government. They also always imagine it will be governed by "the right people", and imagine all the things "the right people" could accomplish if freed from the need to listen to the "ignorant mob".
Yes I fully agree. But it shouldn't be underestimated that when it comes to non-democratic forms of government what kind of people are in power genuinely does have a big impact on how the country is run.
Wanting a philosopher king isn't a bad idea if you aren't mistaken about the philosopher king in question.
Or about your definition of "Philosopher king" in the first place. The character of Marcus Aurelius fit the preferences of those in Rome who dreamt of such a philosopher king; yet he was a poor ruler who displayed apathy - including going against his moral intuitions so as not to actually do anything, like finding gladiatorial games distasteful but making no attempt to limit them - and mediocre crisis management
What kind of people are in power has a big impact under all forms of government, democracy included.
Do we agree on that? I think there are quite a few on LessWrong who are no more in favour of democracy than Ben O'Neill. Or by linking "democracy" to the Sequences post on applause lights, do you mean to imply you mean the opposite of that sentence? Yet it is embedded between two others apparently intended straightforwardly.
That democracy can reliably be used as an applause light is a sign that we as a society agree it is indeed a good thing.
Even if society-at-large agrees something is good, the LW community may disagree in whole or in part.
Other things society-at-large treats as good and applause lights include:
Or, if I model human behavior correctly, it could also have been as sign that we as a society at one point agreed that it is a good thing but now agree that we agree that it is a reliable applause light. (But I don't think democracy-approval has devolved to that level yet. We actually do seem to think it is a good idea.)
From the mission statement of the school at which I studied political science:
But not a sign that it is indeed a good thing.
I don't think everyone here would agree that democracy is a good thing.
Obviously you are right on that. I should have said:
What I really meant by this is that Democracy is something very well entrenched and accepted in Western society and even LessWrong. Dissent from democracy isn't threatening heresy it is the mark of an eccentric.
Paul Graham has written quite extensively of why some things are considered "threatening heresy", and other things mere eccentricity. Ultimately, he concludes that in order for something to be tabooed, it must be threatening to some group that is powerful enough to enforce the taboo, but not powerful enough that the can safely ignore what their critics say about them. Democracy is currently so entrenched in western civilization that it doesn't have to give a fuck if a few people here and there criticize it occasionally.
— Arkady and Boris Strugatsky
--W. V. O. Quine
--Madonna
Neal Stephenson, Quicksilver.
Ah, nothing like a good old-fashioned book-burning.
-Andrew W. Mathis
Or potentially good luck if the combination of your instincts and the (irrationally justified) memes you inherited from tradition are better than your abstract decision making.
Or maybe some non-negligible subset of superstitions give good luck because they're in fact rationally justifiable.
Or because their signalling (or countersignalling) value outweighs their instrumental disadvantages.
Or, while we are at it, superstitions held by those with a generally optimistic outlook will tend towards 'good luck' superstitions and so result in greater exploitation of potential opportunities.
-Vi Hart, Doodling in Math: Spirals, Fibonacci, and Being a Plant- Part 3 of 3
--Razib Khan, here
-a kid named Noah. (Hat-tip to Yvain.)
Charles S. Peirce
That this quote has almost the same number of upvotes as this comment is a good sign, I guess. Curious that the other one collected all the replies that might've gone here, though.
--Burning Man organizers
Latest news: Burning Man blames game theory for their failure to understand basic supply and demand, hugely underprices tickets, 2/3 of buyers left in cold, Market Economics Fairy cries.
That's not a fair assessment of the organizers' skill level.
They seem to have a nice firm grip on the effect of fixed supply, fixed price, and increasing demand:
What they didn't predict was that the expectation of scarcity would further increase demand, creating a positive feedback loop. In their words:
So, they understand supply and demand (they just made a bad factual estimate of demand), and they didn't really understand game theory - but after they made their mistake they publicly admitted it, asked around to see what they did wrong, and proposed strategies for mitigating the mistake.
Why are we mocking them again?
I gather they didn't know how huge the demand would be this year.
Burning Man's problem might be a good topic for LW to kick around. Suppose you have pretty good abundance, how do you ration access to excellent social venues without having barriers that do damage to the venues? Is this even possible?
In this particular case, not all attendees appear to be equally valuable to the event/other attendees. Giving priority to people who've organized cool things in the last few years may make sense.
Yes, this was my reaction - 'let the price float, and give transferrable vouchers to the people who do the most awesome stuff; if they object, well, that's why the vouchers are transferrable'. It's not much different from what they're already suggesting, telling the lucky ones to distribute excess tickets among people they like.
I don't understand, won't pricing the tickets higher just cause people to be disappointed that the tickets were too expensive for them, instead of there not being enough?
It will allow people that were willing to pay the market price actually buy the tickets. If there is sufficient demand then maybe a Burning Man 2 festival makes economic sense, or increasing the supply of tickets for Burning Man itself.
We live in a world of limited resources not of good wishes. Good wishes lead to dead weight losses. I don't see a possible scenario where price control is a good idea - LAW of supply and demand.
If there is some societal interest that the market fails to protect here (is Burning Man a fundamental right applicable to a certain type of person?) If so, then we should have a BMPA (like the EPA) formed to regulate the event.
Intellectual freedom cannot exist without political freedom; political freedom cannot exist without economic freedom; a free mind and a free market are corollaries. - Ayn Rand
Welcome to Less Wrong! If you have time, feel free to introduce yourself to the community here.
It'd probably lead to a roughly equal amount of personal disappointment once the dust settles, but less disruption to the community. Major projects, the kind that the newsletter's alluding to when it talks about collaborations, aren't cheap; members of the camps that put them on usually spend at least their ticket price on supplies, to say nothing of labor. That implies that there's enough loose money floating around those projects that an increase in ticket prices wouldn't be an insurmountable hurdle.
Of course, it may very well be such a hurdle for those burners who've joined the event as spectators; principle of inclusion aside, though, those participants aren't as valuable to the organization or to each other as more committed folks. If there's concern over raising the bar too high for marginal theme camps to participate, the organizers could divert some of the excess funds into grants or reduced-price tickets for that demographic.
I get the impression that this line of thinking looks too cold-blooded for the Burning Man organizers to take to heart, though. Hence the rather strained attempt at casting the problem in terms of "Civic Responsibility" and "Communal Effort".
From the blog post:
It seems pretty easy to solve: auction off all the tickets.
The Market Economics Fairy is pleased with you! She blesses you with sparkles from her wand!
What profit does she get from dispensing sparkles?
It improves the chance that further Market Economics will happen by rewarding people who produce it. It goes without saying that Market Economics is a terminal value to the Market Economics Fairy. If she was just interested in profit, she'd be starting a hedge fund instead of going around telling people about Market Economics.
Market Economics fairy should consider starting a hedge fund anyway and investing that money into a lobby group or other means of promoting Market Economics. I sincerely doubt emitting sparkles from her wand is where her comparative advantage lies.
What do you mean? The Market Economics Fairy is way better at emitting sparkles from her wand than anyone else, and has no special talent for managing hedge funds.
Just how much better than everyone else is she? Perhaps her comparative advantage is in creating a power company. Spend early revenue on recursively improving (ie. research that is money limited) sparkle -> electricity conversion then spend later revenue on hiring people to do FAI<Market Economics Fairy> research so she can maintain and consolidate her overall advantage as technology makes sparkle power obsolete.
Unfortunately for the rest of us the FAI<MEF> creates an environment that degenerates into a Hansonian Hell (then further into mere cosmic commons burning). If it behaved like a FAI<humanity> and did the smart thing and became a singleton the market economics fairy would disintegrate into a puff of vapor - presumably not part of her extrapolated volition. Once someone has won (secured control via overwhelming intelligence advantage) 'Market Economics' becomes nothing more than a charade. Yet maintaining an environment where market economics hold sway ensures a steady evolution towards more efficient competition which will tend toward one of two obvious local minima (burn the earth or, more likely, burn the light cone, depending on whether the leap to interstellar is viable for anyone at any point in the economic competition.)
The Market Economics Fairy must (eventually) die or we will!
(Pardon the Newsomlike tangential stream. It seems relevant/interesting/important to me at least!)
Maybe, but I'm pretty sure there are substitutes: both for the role of sparkles, and manual production of them using a wand.
Well now you've proved that the Market Economics Fairy should quit her job and found a startup aimed at roboticizing sparkle production. I hope you're happy.
Very. :D
Who do you think is behind Ayn Rand?
You're missing the unstated corollary to this, or any other discussion of scalpers: 'and prices have to be "reasonable" for whatever demographic we claim to serve or would prefer to serve'.
Hence, you get discussions of young girl singers unhappy that all these icky old men are paying hundreds of dollars for the tickets to her concert, even though the market doesn't clear at the $40 or $60 her preteen fans can spare. (And if an organization does let the price float to its natural level of hundreds of dollars, then you get shocked articles in the newspaper on 'ticket inflation' and angry letters to the editor about how in their day you could get in for a nickel...)
I agree that ticketing is a difficult problem, but getting rid of scalping is easy if that's your primary objective. Pricing the externalities of event-goers is tough, especially when anti-discrimination legislation means you generally can't be upfront about it.
So there is the problem: The ideal of non-discrimination is not compatible with cases where the demographics of event-goers is itself a strong influence on the quality of the event for everyone involved.
-- Steven Kaas
The human understanding is no dry light, but receives an infusion from the will and affections; whence proceed sciences which may be called "sciences as one would." For what a man had rather were true he more readily believes. Therefore he rejects difficult things from impatience of research; sober things, because they narrow hope; the deeper things of nature, from superstition; the light of experience, from arrogance and pride, lest his mind should seem to be occupied with things mean and transitory; things not commonly believed, out of deference to the opinion of the vulgar. Numberless, in short, are the ways, and sometimes imperceptible, in which the affections color and infect the understanding.
-- Francis Bacon, Novum Organum (Aphorism XLIX), 1620. (1863 translation by Spedding, Ellis and Heath. You should read the whole thing, it's all this good.)
Geoffrey Warnock
Terence Tao
On the Outside View:
--Steven Kaas
E. W. Dijkstra
Space-time is like this set of equations, for which any analogy must be an approximation.
George Bernard Shaw
In my experience I've noticed the reverse, but I could be persuaded otherwise with statistics.
Alain de Botton
--Alain de Botton
Dara O'Briain
He also paraphrases what I've seen described as "the Minchin Principle" a few sentences later.
Joel Stickley, How To Write Badly Well
I may say that this is the greatest factor—the way in which the expedition is equipped—the way in which every difficulty is foreseen, and precautions taken for meeting or avoiding it. Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck.
Saint Augustine of Hippo, Confessions
-Greg Egan, Distress
Saeid Fard
Indeed, even this quote is way below 140 characters :-)
By the way, you're off by a year: the February 2013 thread is here.
Nassim Taleb
Isn't it a common-place of forecasting (and chaos theory in particular) that short-term projections can be terribly inaccurate, even while long-term forecasting can be extremely accurate?
Daniel Kahneman, Thinking, Fast and Slow
-- Scott Aaronson, in this blog post, reaching out to the pointy-haired bosses of the quantum computing world.
A poem about decision trees:
Michael Rothkopf
George Orwell
He's mistaken about math and physics, possibly because he didn't expect his ideas on the subjects to be tested against solid reality....
--Jane Espenson
That is brilliant, I'm taking that one. It's refreshing to see an alternative to the typical belligerently optimistic 'motivational' quotes that deny the rather significant influence of chance.
Well, but it can also be interpreted as a recursive definition expanding to:
-William M. Briggs
Voted up for the link, but the meaning of the quote isn't very clear out of context.
--Bertrand Russell, pg 178 Last philosophical testament: 1943-68
Daniel Dennett, Elbow Room, (Control and Self-Control)
-- Richard Carrier
H. Jackson Brown
(The second-last paragraph of The Power of Agency by Lukeprog reminded me of it.)
I wonder to what extent people who become famous have a way fairly early in their careers to have other people do the routine work for them.
Rationality promotion:
-- Nate Silver, today's 538 blog
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/08/g-o-p-race-has-hallmarks-of-prolonged-battle/
The original even linked to the wikipedia entry on "Bayesian".
--Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan
Dindo Capello, as quoted in Truth in 24 (2009 film).
-- .Helmuth von Moltke the Elder (1800-1891) (paraphrased)