cousin_it comments on Second order logic, in first order set-theory: what gives? - Less Wrong

10 Post author: Stuart_Armstrong 23 February 2012 12:29PM

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Comment author: cousin_it 23 February 2012 01:06:54PM *  5 points [-]

If you believe that there's a unique standard model of the reals, you must also believe that the continuum hypothesis has a definite truth value. Some people don't believe that.

Comment author: wuthefwasthat 23 February 2012 06:21:05PM *  3 points [-]

I don't think that's true. You may not believe that the set of functions is unique (in which case the notion of sets in bijection is no longer unique).

Comment author: [deleted] 24 February 2012 03:56:19AM 0 points [-]

What exactly are you denying when you deny that the continuum hypothesis has a definite truth value? After all it's very easy to prove "CH is either true or false" in whatever formal system you prefer, with some notable but unpopular exceptions.

Comment author: cousin_it 24 February 2012 05:54:22AM *  2 points [-]

I'm not completely sure of that myself, but consider this analogy. Let PA+X be a formal system that consists of the axioms of PA plus a new axiom that introduces a new symbol X and simply says "X is an integer", without saying anything more about X. Then it's easy to prove "X is either even or odd" in PA+X, but it would be wrong to say that PA+X has a unique distinguished "standard model" that pins down the parity of X. So my statement about CH is more of a statement about our intuitions possibly misfiring when they say a formal system must have a unique standard model.

Comment author: [deleted] 25 February 2012 07:03:43PM 0 points [-]

Are you comfortable rejecting the idea that PA has a "standard model"?