John_Maxwell_IV comments on People who "don't rationalize"? [Help Rationality Group figure it out] - Less Wrong

12 Post author: Mercurial 02 March 2012 11:38PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (85)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: AnnaSalamon 03 March 2012 08:30:24AM 9 points [-]

In response to the folk suggesting that our questions were just unclear, etc.:

I notice rationalization all the time too (in myself and in others); but there totally seem to be people who don't ever notice it in themselves. Lots of them. Including both folks who seem never to have trained in rationality-type-stuff at all, and folks who have. I ignored my first counter-example, and my second, but not my third and forth; especially after the fourth counter-example kindly allowed us to cross-examine them for some hours, to go try accosting strangers with weird questions and see if they noticed themself rationalizing while approaching said strangers, etc.

Mercurial, and Eliezer, both suggested an analogy to the "thinking in words" vs "thinking in images" thing; some do one and others do another, and many tend to assume that everyone must experience life that way. We all updated toward thinking that there is some actual thing going on here -- something we were initially not modeling.

But, I'm still confused about:

  1. Whether we're just still missing something obvious anyhow. Maybe our fourth counter-example, who consented to answering gobs of questions and trying experiments for us, was a fluke? (Try asking people yourself, please; don't just say that it must be experimental error because you don't work that way)
  2. Whether they don't rationalize, or just don't notice themselves rationalizing. (Fourth datapoint seemed to maybe actually never make up reasons for choices; don't have data on the others really).
  3. What exactly the boundaries are on "rationalizing" -- what exactly it is, that a sizable portion of the folks we've talked to never notices themselves doing.
Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 04 March 2012 02:26:34AM *  3 points [-]

You could try videotaping them in an argument and then go over the videotape looking for rationalizations. This could deal with varying definitions of rationalize. For best results, make the argument about something that people frequently rationalize. Maybe present them with some ambiguous data that might or might not support their political beliefs (several neutral observers say it didn't affect them either way, since it was so ambiguous), and see if it makes them more certain that their political beliefs are true (as you'd expect in a cognitively normal human).

I'm assuming you're using "rationalization" as a synonym for "motivated cognition".