Dallas comments on Request for input: draft of my "coming out" statement on religious deconversion - Less Wrong

9 Post author: jwhendy 03 March 2012 09:58PM

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Comment author: jwhendy 03 March 2012 11:03:37PM *  6 points [-]

Do marriage, two kids and home ownership fall into the sunk-cost category?

ETA: Missed the note about divorce (which indicates that marriage does fall into your sunk-cost trap definition). What qualifies as "wife cannot accept who you are?" Don't get me wrong, it's definitely crossed my mind, but in the absence of some kind of abuse, blatant disregard for my equality/dignity, or something similar... I'm not sure I have good reasons to muck things up that badly in a practical sense (even if starting anew might bring about some relief and eliminate the need for any kind of statement at all).

Comment author: Dallas 04 March 2012 01:23:54AM -2 points [-]

Assuming you survive for more than the next ten years or so, yes.

Also, your wife is Catholic. If you issue an ultimatum to deconvert, we end up with one of the three following scenarios:

  1. She accepts.
  2. You divorce her. She doesn't remarry, probably causing her vast emotional harm.
  3. You divorce her. She caves in to emotional pressure and remarries, ousting her from the conventional Catholic community.

All three scenarios weaken overall religious influence and raise the probability that your children will be epistemologically sane. I consider this preferable.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 04 March 2012 06:41:43PM *  3 points [-]

How about this:

  1. She doesn't deconvert. The extended Catholic community preserves the story of how jwhendy became an evil atheist and abandoned his wife and children as a result.
Comment author: jwhendy 04 March 2012 07:20:29PM 0 points [-]

A very possible outcome. What's missing is what I pointed out above in my response to Dallas.

Nonetheless, it still strikes me as a complex situation and I'm not settled on how to judge potential future states and sum the collective happinesses of the stakeholders.

How does one factor in various happinesses, potentially negative views of myself and atheists in general, my childrens' development/emotional/intellectual health, and so on?

Comment author: jwhendy 04 March 2012 01:48:11AM *  3 points [-]

What about other options:

  • She doesn't deconvert. We remain married, happily.
  • She doesn't deconvert. We remain married, unhappily.

I also predict she could get an annulment pretty easily given my deconversion, which adds another option:

  • I divorce her. She gets married when she's ready and is not ousted from the Catholic community.

Also, it seems like you've honed in on the beliefs of my children and wife as the most important factors (with a side of my wife's future unhappiness, but I'm not sure if you counted that toward the weakening of overall religious influence). Do you think there are other factors to weigh?

In any case, I find the most valuable point to be your reminder to me that this is long term. I've tried to keep that in mind, though weighting near unhappiness vs. far improvement is definitely a potential trap. I'm 27 and thus probably do have more than 10 years.

Nonetheless, it still strikes me as a complex situation and I'm not settled on how to judge potential future states and sum the collective happinesses of the stakeholders.

Comment author: Bugmaster 04 March 2012 01:39:43AM 0 points [-]

Bit harsh on the wife, though...

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