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Incorrect comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 10 - Less Wrong
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Comments (641)
I thought last we heard Hermione was being brainwashed. Is this all happening afterward? What does Hermione think Draco is plotting? Why is Hermione so upset and why hasn't she been talking to Harry?
I am so confused.
Hat & Cloak is almost definitely going to play a part in whatever happens to Hermione now. Come to think of it, he/she might have somehow been involved in Draco's injuries. Or might even be the one who arranged for Hermione's arrest, since it isn't obvious how that helps Lucius.
Presumably, Hermione has just been the subject of a Groundhog Day Attack, and is now believing whatever the mysterious figure wants her to believe. Said figure is presumably new to the concept, as he almost slipped several times. So Hermione thinks Draco is plotting something to exploit her mysterious destiny.
Hermione hasn't been talking to Harry for awhile, I believe.
I wouldn't say that H&C is necessarily new to the concept of Groundhog Day Attacks. If Quirrell is Voldemort and also H&C, he would not likely have a good mental model of the pure and innocent and good and upright Hermione Granger. It would take him a few tries to find the right levers to push.
But I'm not sure that Hermione isn't simply under the Imperius Curse at this point. When she's fighting Draco, she gives her wand a "mysterious flick" in a very un-Hermione-like feint. I don't know why Eliezer would deliberately place that word "mysterious" there unless he wanted to hint that Hermione isn't fully in control of her faculties.
It just occurred to me that while some artifacts have not surfaced in canon order, there's no reason other artifacts can't surface out of canon order.
What about the diary, which was apparently in the possession of Lucius in canon?
See above. Quirrel wouldn't have made the slip that alerted the readers to a Groundhog Day Attack.
Now, the imperius... I could believe a confundus, maybe. She's not mindless enough for an imperius.
I don't know, Canon!Harry was the only one in his class who could resist it if I recall. And that was in their fourth year.
I think linkhyrule5 means that she isn't acting mindless enough for an Imperius.
IIRC, a well-cast Imperius can be very convincing. I don't think it's likely though, considering H&C's apparent incompetence.
That's not to say other characters we know aren't already under the Imperius. It seems like a spell that would be used often than in cannon if no one is holding any idiot balls.
Perhaps Imperius is one of the charms detected by Hogwart's wards.
If that were so, then it would have made detecting Imperiused infiltrators during the war trivial: just floo everyone in the Ministry through a room in Hogwarts, with in- and out-fireplaces, and arrest any who set off the wards. You could do it once a week, or every morning, or randomly thrice a week, or whatever. It's too obvious, and too easy and non-controversial, for someone like Dumbledore not to have noticed and put in place. This did not happen.
The ministry was clearly not actually trying to catch Death Eaters during the first war. Even simpler than this (as a first pass to catch spies) would be to make all ministry employees roll up their left sleeve on a regular basis.
Perhaps casting Imperius is detected by Hogwarts wards. This is in fact more likely (that is, it better fits my impression of what wards should be like) than supposing that Hogwarts wards detect ongoing Imperius enchantments.
You could't apparate to Hogward in cannon, if I recall correctly?
It's possible that H&C never did figure out an effective lever. In that case, he might have given up on Memory Charming her (requires the target's defenses to be lowered, at least in the case of an experienced Auror and possibly for a very pissed off first year) and just oblivated her. If he'd managed to memory charm her, I don't think she'd have been so freaked out. She also wouldn't have 'lost track of time', she'd have had a perfectly reasonable legitimate excuse put in place.
Also, have we seen Quirrell use Legilimancy at all? If we have, that's an argument for H&C not being Quirrell, because if you've thoroughly read someone's mind you it shouldn't take that many tries for a groundhog day attack.
I think you're reading too much into it. Mysterious makes sense when you're describing a feint.
Quirrell told Harry that reading minds takes the fun out of things, but then that's just what he'd say if that wasn't true.
Especially when the person in question has been fighting a lot of bullies lately AND is royally pissed off.
When you're going to Obliviate the target anyway, there's little downside to letting some frustration slip through. I don't think that necessarily counts as a screwup.
Are you truly confused about these?
Yes, this is happening after the Groundhog-day attack. Obviously so.
We don't know yet what Hermione thinks Draco is plotting.
We don't know what exactly happened to make Hermione so upset.
What is there to be confused about? Don't misuse the word to merely signify lack of knowledge.
It wasn't so obvious to me because the chapter started by stating the date and time.
I wasn't sure whether I was missing information because I wasn't understanding the story properly or because it was for dramatic tension.
If the answer was dramatic tension, then I was merely missing information, however, if I wasn't understanding the story properly then I would consider that confusion.
I believe if you don't know whether you are confused then it is acceptable to call yourself confused.
Okay, but there was this paragraph, which clearly indicated the groundhog attack had already happened:
"Hermione had even missed her Sunshine Regiment Official Planning Meeting, which seemed understandable enough; but when Susan had offered her sympathy afterward, Hermione had stammered that she'd lost track of time, which wasn't at all a usual thing for her to say, and the girl had looked exhausted and frightened like she'd just spent three days locked in a bathroom stall with a Dementor. "