Locke comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 10 - Less Wrong

11 Post author: Oscar_Cunningham 07 March 2012 04:46PM

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Comment author: jimrandomh 15 March 2012 09:04:46PM 9 points [-]

Chapter 25, Fred and George talking about the Marauder's Map, which is supposed to show all people in Hogwarts by name:

“Still on the fritz,” said George.
“Both, or—”
“Intermittent one fixed itself again. Other one’s same as ever.”

The intermittent one is probably Quirrell, going in and out of zombie mode. But what could be visibly wrong with the other one? My theory is that, unlike all the other dots on the Marauder's Map, one of them doesn't have a name. Who could that be?

I hypothesize that this is Mr. Hat and Cloak. That would mean it's not Quirrell and not anyone the Weasleys would pay much attention to, either. The map must get the names it displays from somewhere, and its reliability in doing so suggests that it gets them from people's minds. My hypothesis is that to appear on the map without a name, you'd have to (a) not be known by name and present appearance to anyone whose mind the map can read, and (b) be an occlumens.

Comment author: prasannak 16 March 2012 06:31:22AM 5 points [-]

Intermittent one is either people using time-turners, Weasley's don;t know about time-turners, so they think it's showing one person in two places or If it showed two names for the same person, that might be an intermittent bug too, ie Quirrel/Riddle based on who he is at the moment.

Permanent bug might be someone floating in the castle who they know shouldn't be there, perhaps Pettigrew, or Sirius, or someone who should be there but isn't - ie Quirrell being unplottable.

Dumbledore & Snape are known Occlumens, but they show up on the map just fine.

In canon, the bug that Harry saw was Pettigrew on the map but he wasn't actually there in reality.

Comment author: glumph 16 March 2012 06:46:15AM *  3 points [-]

I don't think either of the glitches are Time-Turners. Time-Turners have (presumably) been used regularly in Hogwarts since the twins arrived, and it's made clear that these glitches are new:

The Map was an extraordinarily powerful artifact, capable of tracking every sentient being on the school grounds, in real time, by name. Almost certainly, it had been created during the original raising of Hogwarts. It was not good that errors were starting to pop up.

Comment author: taelor 16 March 2012 09:59:02AM 4 points [-]

Also, bear in mind that the official story is that the time turners are used to treat "spontaneous duplication"; if the map occasionally registers multiple versions of a "spontaneous duplication" sufferer, that would be written off as a feature, not a bug (just not the feature that the twins think it is).

Comment author: Locke 15 March 2012 09:46:20PM *  1 point [-]

I think it's likely that Harry is one of those errors. We he goes dark-side his name might change.

Comment author: jimrandomh 15 March 2012 09:57:05PM 1 point [-]

I don't think George would describe a glitch where someone's name changes as being "same as ever".

Comment author: Locke 15 March 2012 10:03:08PM *  3 points [-]

I mean that he might be the intermittent one instead of Quirrell. If maps like these really do show one's true name, as with Scabbers and Crouch in Canon, then Quirrell probably knows about them and made himself generally unplottable, not just intermittently.

Comment author: major 16 March 2012 08:09:21PM 0 points [-]

My guess is, the intermittent one is H&C taking the appearance (and name, on the map) of students who are elsewhere to walk among the children, listening to rumours, maybe even talking to them. I'm going to assume he can disappear as well as change shape when out of sight, otherwise it would be too easy to track him down; plus, that's why it's 'intermittent'.

Comment author: gwern 16 March 2012 09:15:30PM 3 points [-]

The last chapter to me indicates strongly that the glitch is Voldemort's spirit. Now you might ask, 'wouldn't George & Fred be scared witless by Voldemort appearing on their map occasionally and maybe even report it?' But Voldemort is a pseudonym and the spirit would show up as 'Tom Riddle', as Dumbledore's PoV indicates (notice Dumbledore has no problem saying 'Voldemort' in other contexts, but when he uses the Map, he asks for 'Tom Riddle').

Canon indicates that Voldemort's origin is a secret: Dumbledore spends years digging out the link and the diary in Chamber of Secrets seems to think it's telling Harry something good when it explains the anagram 'Tom Marvolo Riddle' = 'I am Lord Voldemort' or whatever. So the twins wouldn't make the link.

What probably happened is they noticed the glitch - maybe it claimed Riddle was in the same room as them at some point? - and investigated carefully, not finding anyone where the Map said a Riddle was. Perhaps they did some more digging and turned up Riddle's old school history as Head Boy etc. Naturally, they conclude the Map is buggy: 'old students from half a century ago are showing up! Bugs in the Map are not good!'

Comment author: loserthree 17 March 2012 01:01:36AM 1 point [-]

Perhaps the twins were very careful with the Map, as would be appropriate for illicit tools of mischief, and never used it while they were in the same room as anyone else. It would be dangerous to do so, and their mischievous uses for it could easily work around such a restriction.

That, greater concerns, and a little bit of narrative/circumstance, could keep them from ever laying eyes on the people that corresponded to their glitches.

Comment author: gwern 17 March 2012 01:08:10AM 3 points [-]

Perhaps the twins were very careful with the Map, as would be appropriate for illicit tools of mischief, and never used it while they were in the same room as anyone else.

Well, yes, so imagine their shock when after the usual precautions they solemnly swear and see a third person listed in the room with them.

Comment author: loserthree 17 March 2012 01:59:12AM 0 points [-]

The Disillusionment Charm is commonly known, yes?

That wouldn't be mysterious, I don't think. It would be shocking and frightening and frankly it ought to have happened at some point and the twins ought to have lost their Map because of it.

Or maybe they take precautions that would protect them against all the hiding tricks they know about and, you're right, still encountered an extra name now and then. Still, I have a bit set that suggests the narrative would be more specific about that case, though I can't justify it.