Locke comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 10 - Less Wrong

11 Post author: Oscar_Cunningham 07 March 2012 04:46PM

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Comment author: Locke 17 March 2012 02:13:14AM *  0 points [-]

The thing is, If Quirrell is behind all this and is being detained unnecessarily is his plan, then Harry has got to realize that everything that has transpired has been according to his design. In fact, if he were H&C I'd expect him to be present so he could put on a show of doing his best to save Hermione. So it's very possible that the real culprit has planned for the professor's absence in order to turn Harry against him. That might be exactly what Quirrell will tell Harry when he is released post-trial, but frankly I don't see why he'd go through the extra trouble and cast doubt on himself just so as to avoid pretending to help.

Unless, as you say, he is avoiding the map. However, the battle-map in 78 demonstrates that the Marauders did not invent the device. Thus, there is almost definitely one at the Ministry, where security is paramount. So if Quirrell did show up as Tom Riddle on such maps, he'd be assaulted by a hundred Aurors the moment he stepped foot on the premises.

Therefore, I conclude that Quirrell is innocent.

Comment author: LucasSloan 17 March 2012 03:27:36AM 1 point [-]

The founders of Hogwarts created the map. Dumbledore considers the wards at Hogwarts stronger than those in the Department of Mysteries, so it stands to reason that all the aspects of the Hogwarts security system are stronger than those at the Ministry, including the map.

Comment author: pedanterrific 17 March 2012 03:41:29AM 1 point [-]

No, Fred and George think that Salazar might have created the map.

Comment author: LucasSloan 17 March 2012 03:51:20AM 2 points [-]

Dumbledore asked for the map, and used the sorting hat to procure a crystal rod which allowed him to manipulate it. It is an artifact of the founders.

Comment author: pedanterrific 17 March 2012 05:44:46AM 0 points [-]

Dumbledore didn't order the map to obey on his authority as Headmaster, he summoned a tool with which to fiddle with it. How do you know that crystal rods aren't a standard way to affect enchanted objects, and the one kept in the Sorting Hat is just unusually high-quality?

I mean, if it was created by the founders, the Marauders would have had to do something very similar in the first place. So either Dumbledore undid the Marauders' alterations, or he altered their (or whoever's) creation the same way they would have had to, counterfactually. How do you distinguish between the options?

Comment author: LucasSloan 17 March 2012 06:32:20AM 0 points [-]

Ryvrmre unf fgngrq gung nyy fhssvpvragyl cbjreshy bowrpgf ner negvsnpgf. Bar bs gur bowrpgf ersreraprq jnf gur znenhqref znc.

Comment author: pedanterrific 17 March 2012 07:47:12AM 0 points [-]

Oh yeah. Uh, nevermind then.

Out of curiosity, why the rot13? Did Eliezer retract this statement somewhere?

Comment author: LucasSloan 17 March 2012 08:04:11AM 0 points [-]

I think I got that information privately.

Comment author: Locke 17 March 2012 05:03:47AM *  0 points [-]

Actually, if in MoR it doesn't mention Moody, Wormtail, Padfoot and Prongs, then the founders are a good guess.

Comment author: pedanterrific 17 March 2012 05:36:35AM 3 points [-]

The Map was an extraordinarily powerful artifact, capable of tracking every sentient being on the school grounds, in real time, by name. Almost certainly, it had been created during the original raising of Hogwarts. It was not good that errors were starting to pop up. Chances were that no one except Dumbledore could fix it if it was broken.

And the Weasley twins weren't about to turn the Map over to Dumbledore. It would have been an unforgivable insult to the Marauders - the four unknowns who'd managed to steal part of the Hogwarts security system, something probably forged by Salazar Slytherin himself, and twist it into a tool for student pranking.

Comment author: Locke 17 March 2012 05:53:33AM 0 points [-]

Ah. In that case the Ministry probably doesn't have one. Though I still doubt there's not a way Quirrell could get around it.

Comment author: drethelin 17 March 2012 08:00:00AM 0 points [-]

I think quirrel couldn't get around it because he might not know it even exists.

Comment author: gwern 17 March 2012 03:32:44PM 0 points [-]

Yes. There are a couple routes he might have learned of it, though:

  • Slytherin's monster, as a high-level creature keyed into the deepest wards, might be expected to know of it or be able to learn of it.
  • If my speculation about the Map's anomaly is right, Voldemort's spirit could have learned of it by directly observing the twins.
  • The Map has been passed down through the ages and sometimes even been in official possession, so it could be mentioned in some obscure book. Possibly it might be a headmaster secret, explaining how Dumbledore learned of it without requiring him to invade their minds.
  • The twins could have been suspiciously - to Quirrel - adept at avoiding professors and obstacles, prompting him to spy on them as one would expect Quirrel to do.
  • The Map could be revealed at a future date; Quirrel's suspiciously good priors have long been speculated as being related to time travel.

None of them seem especially likely, but in aggregate with other strategies I have failed to think of...

Comment author: Nominull 17 March 2012 03:39:22AM 0 points [-]

Well, it doesn't stand to reason exactly, but it stands to guess given a lack of contradictory evidence, at least.

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