faul_sname comments on Rationally Irrational - Less Wrong

-11 Post author: HungryTurtle 07 March 2012 07:21PM

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Comment author: Swimmer963 09 March 2012 09:31:52PM 5 points [-]

Humans are irrational by nature; humans are also social by nature.

One: what is your evidence that humans are "irrational by nature", and how do you define this irrationality.

Two: I've found that since I started reading LW and trying to put some of its concepts into practice, my ability to handle social situations has actually improved. I am now much better at figuring out what people really want and what I really want, and then finding a way to get both without getting derailed by which options "feel high-status". The specific LW rationality toolkit, at least for me, has been VERY helpful in improving both my individual psychological health and my "social health."

Comment author: faul_sname 09 March 2012 10:16:21PM 4 points [-]

One: I think Lukeprog says it pretty well here:

“Oh my God,” you think. “It’s not that I have a rational little homunculus inside that is being ‘corrupted’ by all these evolved heuristics and biases layered over it. No, the data are saying that the software program that is me just is heuristics and biases. I just am this kluge of evolved cognitive modules and algorithmic shortcuts. I’m not an agent designed to have correct beliefs and pursue explicit goals; I’m a crazy robot built as a vehicle for propagating genes without spending too much energy on expensive thinking neurons.”

Two: Good point. Social goals and nonsocial goals are only rarely at odds with one another, so this may not be a particularly fruitful line of thought. Still, it is possible that the idea of rational "irrationality" is neglected here.

Comment author: thomblake 10 April 2012 06:21:42PM 1 point [-]

Social goals and nonsocial goals are only rarely at odds with one another

This seems implausible on the face of it, as goals in general tend to conflict. Especially to the extent that resources are fungible.

Comment author: Swimmer963 09 March 2012 10:20:22PM 1 point [-]

I agree with you on Lukeprog's description being a good one. I'm curious about whether HungryTurtle agrees with this description, too, or whether he's using a more specific sense of "irrational."

Comment author: HungryTurtle 06 April 2012 05:31:36PM 0 points [-]

Social goals and nonsocial goals are only rarely at odds with one another

hahah than why is smoking cool for many people? Why is binge drinking a sign of status in American colleges? Why do we pull all nighters and damage our health for the pursuit of the perfect paper, party, or performance.

Social goals are a large portion of the time at odds with individual health goals.

Comment author: faul_sname 06 April 2012 08:05:43PM 0 points [-]

I'm probably generalizing too much from my own experience, which is social pressure to get educated and practice other forms of self-improvement. I've never actually seen anyone who considers binge drinking a good thing, so I had just assumed that was the media blowing a few isolated cases out of proportion. I could easily be wrong though.