dlthomas comments on Schelling fences on slippery slopes - Less Wrong

179 Post author: Yvain 16 March 2012 11:44PM

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Comment author: dlthomas 27 March 2012 11:32:24PM *  2 points [-]

So your idea is to have them stay in there indefinitely as someone might get hurt on the way out?

That's not at all what I said.

If you can't evacuate a theatre without a reasonable expectation that no-one will be harmed you shouldn't be running a theatre and anyone who is harmed should sue you (or fire marshals, local council, regulators or whoever should shut you down).

Basically what TheOtherDave (hmm, convenient, as I happen to be a Dave as well...) said. A bunch of frightened people moving about all at once are going to present more risk than a bunch of calm people trickling in and out; the question is what we can do to lower that risk. Any security measure is about tradeoffs, and when it costs X to lower the risk by Y of harm Z, and X > Y * Z * chance of an incident, then implementing the measure is bad policy. This calculus is embodied in the decisions made by the fire marshals and the local councils and regulators and whatnot as they put together the local fire code, run inspections, etc, whose goal is not to reduce the risk to zero (or even "absolutely as low as we can go at any cost").

Comment author: keddaw 28 March 2012 10:16:50AM -2 points [-]

So close notTheOtherDave...

when it costs X to lower the risk by Y of harm Z, and X > Y * Z * chance of an incident, then implementing the measure is bad policy.

Is exactly the point, but you have not defined X. Given that X leads to a slippery slope decrease in all free speech rights (e.g. Gitmo torture reporting, Bradley Manning etc. etc.) then how do you quantify X?

Sometimes the direct harm of X may be less than the others, but the principle is much more important.

This is why we presume people innocent. This is why convicting no-one is preferable to convicting the wrong person. This is why, in short, we have rights!

Comment author: TimS 28 March 2012 12:09:13PM *  1 point [-]

when it costs X to lower the risk by Y of harm Z

He did define X. It is the cost of preventing the harm. See generally Burden vs. Cost of Injury x Probability of occurrence

Comment author: dlthomas 29 March 2012 01:34:43AM *  0 points [-]

Noting that on the one hand I don't think our actual policy recommendations would be far apart (as pertaining to the issues at hand, at least) , and on the other that I have may objections to particulars your post above, I am going to nonetheless bow out as we are straying much too deep into mind-killer territory for my liking. I notice that you are new here, and point you toward Policy Debates Should Not Appear One-Sided and Politics Is The Mind-Killer, if you have not already seen them. Feel free to contact me privately if you would like to continue any political part of this discussion in another forum.