BlackNoise comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 11 - Less Wrong

6 Post author: Oscar_Cunningham 17 March 2012 09:41AM

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Comment author: BlackNoise 23 March 2012 04:36:37PM 5 points [-]

Sorry if this was mentioned before, but I just noticed something (not related to the latest cliffhanger):

It's implied that some people break into Azkaban to give some prisoners normal sleep/Patronus time, but why go to all the trouble when you can just tell a Patronus to go there for a few hours by itself. And we already know that a Patronus can travel into Azkaban (McGonagalls' in TSPE arc)

So, plothole?

Comment author: ArisKatsaris 23 March 2012 04:42:45PM 8 points [-]

The trick of knowing how to send Patronuses to others as messengers has been implied to be kept in Dumbledore's close circle, as a tactical advantage. (e.g. Quirrel mentioning the possibility of Dumbledore teaching Harry this trick -- not as if it's public knowledge)

Comment author: rdb 25 March 2012 03:57:51AM *  0 points [-]

Harry & Draco have learnt to send Patronus messages. With the goal of preserving Hermione unbroken while working towards her exoneration, Harry could

  • Arrange teaching of sending messages to any Patronus wielders in SPHEW/Sunshine or anyone else willing to help Hermione ** will confirm whether it is possible to maintain a Patronus at a distance for long periods
  • Arrange teaching of Patronus to those willing to help who don't know it.
  • Given the Cloak & Harry's Patronus hide those protected from Dementors, research Rituals/Potions to confer that ** An aim of Quirrel's?
  • Enlist help in finding evidence for Hermione's memory charming (Daphne noting she missed the Sunshine army council of war in 79).
Comment author: Incorrect 24 March 2012 10:47:42PM -2 points [-]

Actually Malfoy sends his to Harry with a message.

Comment author: pedanterrific 25 March 2012 12:07:40AM 3 points [-]

As far as I know we have no indication that Lucius is capable of casting the Patronus Charm at all. Or are you referring to the scene where Harry teaches Draco how to send messages with it?

Comment author: Incorrect 25 March 2012 02:09:47AM 0 points [-]

The latter. Wait why would Harry teach Draco a secret trick belonging to Dumbledore's close circle?

Comment author: pedanterrific 25 March 2012 02:13:51AM 3 points [-]

"That reminds me," said Harry after a while. "Can we test my hypothesis about how to use a Patronus to send messages?" [...]

The trick - or so Harry hypothesized - was wanting to spread the good news, wanting the recipient to know the truth of whatever happy thought you'd used to cast the Patronus Charm. Only instead of telling the recipient in words, the Patronus itself was the message. By wanting them to see that, the Patronus would go to them.

He just came up with the idea independently.

Comment author: Normal_Anomaly 25 March 2012 03:13:02PM 0 points [-]

Or at least he saw that it could be done and independently came up with how.

Comment author: lavalamp 23 March 2012 04:40:12PM 2 points [-]

Yeah, I was wondering about this, also. Does Harry have to be physically present to destroy the dementors in Azkaban?

Comment author: DanArmak 23 March 2012 05:32:25PM 1 point [-]

Great point!

However, in TSPE arc, when Harry had one of his emotional "I'll destroy all dementors right now" episodes after hearing just how Bella was used by Voldemort, he had to come up fast with rational reasons not to do it. And one reason was that it would not be maximally efficient to destroy the dementors while standing in a corridor in Azkaban, and it would be better to go himself to the central pit where they lived.

So it should be much harder yet to destroy them from Hogwarts. Maybe not impossible, though. One at a time?

But Dumbledore would immediately know that it was Harry doing it, and would stop him after only a few were destroyed, unless he managed to destroy them all in one go. And Harry's internal monologue in the same instance I referred to indicates that doing so would take so much life-energy it would kill Harry.

Comment author: lavalamp 23 March 2012 06:00:17PM 2 points [-]

And one reason was that it would not be maximally efficient to destroy the dementors while standing in a corridor in Azkaban, and it would be better to go himself to the central pit where they lived.

I guess the question is whether it's Harry's location that matters or the location of his patronus.

Comment author: BlackNoise 23 March 2012 05:46:51PM 2 points [-]

Maybe what matters isn't the proximity of the caster but of the patronus itself. Though Harry might still not be able to send his 2.0 on a search&destroy mission while staying at Hogwarts.

His wand stayed in his hand, and a slight, sustainable flow from him replaced the slight losses from his Patronus.

There seems to be a need for constant energy transfer into the patronus, and I doubt this transfusion line can go through hyperspace.

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