pedanterrific comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 11 - Less Wrong

6 Post author: Oscar_Cunningham 17 March 2012 09:41AM

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Comment author: Locke 25 March 2012 01:49:39AM *  1 point [-]

IIRC, The two security charms we specifically know about are those to check for powerful artifacts and Animagi. Now, we know that Harry's Invisibility Cloak is apparently never detected by the former spell, so I suspect that anything in Harry's bag is not detectable by these means. Therefore, I propose that Quirrell left either a small Animagus or Magical Artifact in Harry's bag when he entered as a serpent.

As to why specifically he'd do that, I don't think we have enough information to speculate.

Comment author: pedanterrific 25 March 2012 01:59:44AM 0 points [-]

Now, we know that Harry's Invisibility Cloak is apparently never detected by the former spell

Refresh my memory: how do we know this?

Comment author: Pringlescan 25 March 2012 02:07:25AM 1 point [-]

Actually if I remember correctly during the bully final showdown Hermoine gets scared because she recognizes one of the charms as one that would detect Harry's cloak in the area if not find it directly.

Comment author: pedanterrific 25 March 2012 02:08:51AM 0 points [-]

Yes, but Harry's Cloak wasn't anywhere near there, so...

Comment author: Pringlescan 25 March 2012 04:10:02AM *  1 point [-]

Fully two dozen different Charms must have been spoken, then, but no more invisible people showed up. One of them in particular made Hermione's heart sink; she recognized it as the Charm which had been listed alongside the description of the True Cloak of Invisibility, which would not reveal the Cloak, but would tell you whether it or certain other artifacts were nearby.

To clarify when I said 'actually . . . .' i meant to disprove that assertion not support it.

Comment author: pedanterrific 25 March 2012 04:12:17AM *  0 points [-]

"Professor Quirrell had already deduced my possession of an invisibility cloak," Harry said. "And knowing him, he has probably guessed that it is a Deathly Hallow. But in this case, Headmaster, it so happens that Professor Quirrell was under one of those face-concealing white robes."

Edit in response to your edit: You lost me.

To clarify when I said 'actually . . . .' i meant to disprove that assertion not support it.

The example you gave was not an instance of Harry's Cloak being detected or not-detected, so it doesn't prove anything one way or another.

Comment author: Locke 25 March 2012 02:43:12AM 0 points [-]

Harry would have noted if an alarm went off or the cloak started glowing or buzzing or whatnot. That would be the way an ancient artifact would be revealed, right?

Comment author: pedanterrific 25 March 2012 02:54:58AM 2 points [-]

One of them in particular made Hermione's heart sink; she recognized it as the Charm which had been listed alongside the description of the True Cloak of Invisibility, which would not reveal the Cloak, but would tell you whether it or certain other artifacts were nearby.

I assumed the caster of the spell silently becomes aware of the fact "there is an artifact nearby". I guess it might be possible it sounds an alarm instead, but that would require that mokeskin pouches can beat artifact-detecting spells, which seems unlikely.

Comment author: linkhyrule5 25 March 2012 03:33:50AM 1 point [-]

My bet, honestly, is that the Cloak of Invisibility laughs at artifact-detecting spells.

Comment author: Locke 25 March 2012 03:38:19AM 2 points [-]

If, say, Rita Skeeter knew or guessed that we would come here, it is possible that she could be in this room wearing the true Cloak of Invisibility. Or she could be an Animagus with a tiny form, perhaps. There are tests to rule out such rare possibilities, but to perform all of them would be arduous.

Comment author: linkhyrule5 26 March 2012 07:52:46AM 0 points [-]

but to perform all of them would be arduous.

Comment author: pedanterrific 26 March 2012 07:59:09AM *  1 point [-]

Professor Quirrell grinned, then took out his wand and flicked it in the direction of the door. "Of course," he said, "people who lead interesting lives take precautions more thorough than the dalliers. I have just sealed us in. Nothing will now pass in or out of this room - through the crack under the door, for example. And..."

Professor Quirrell then spoke no fewer than four different Charms, none of which Harry recognized.

"Even that does not really suffice," said Professor Quirrell. "If we were doing anything of truly great import, it would be necessary to perform another twenty-three checks besides those. If, say, Rita Skeeter [...]

Which raises the question of what the last two Charms in the set of thirty are; but the clear implication is that the spell that would detect the presence of the Cloak of Invisibility is part of the "twenty-three checks" which he performs on other occasions in Harry's presence.

Comment author: Locke 25 March 2012 03:39:50AM 0 points [-]

I'm fairly certain that's how detection spells work though. In Deathly Hallows there were blaring alarms when the gang apparated into Hogsmead.

Comment author: glumph 25 March 2012 06:21:30AM *  2 points [-]

That was actually called the Caterwauling Charm, though. There's another detection spell in DH: Hominem Revelio. The only known effects of this spell are (i) the 'swooping sensation' experienced by a detected person and (ii) the lack of any alarm when nobody is detected. It's likely, however, that there is no alarm even when persons are detected; when it's used against Harry, Ron, and Hermoine by Death Eaters there is no alarm mentioned in the text.

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