Bugmaster comments on SotW: Check Consequentialism - Less Wrong

38 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 29 March 2012 01:35AM

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Comment author: wedrifid 29 March 2012 12:23:09PM -2 points [-]

Being proud of clever retorts, etc. Participants could then ACTUALLY try to answer the debate question (ninja v. pirates, or whatever) in teams, and then discuss what it felt like to actually try to find the answer.

Short exercise. Does anyone actually think pirates stand a chance against professionally trained assassins? I thought the only reason people defend pirates is because it's a way to say both of them (or their identity-memes) are just so damn cool.

Comment author: Bugmaster 29 March 2012 11:13:17PM 1 point [-]

Does anyone actually think pirates stand a chance against professionally trained assassins?

Technically, both pirates and ninjas, as they are depicted in popular folklore, are fictional entities. While people named "pirates" and "ninjas" did exist (and do exist to this day), they bear little resemblance to grog-swilling scallywags or black-clad wire-fu artists or what have you. Thus, before we can answer your question, we need to nail down exactly what you mean by "pirates" and "ninjas"; what capabilities you expect these fictional combatants to possess, and then go from there.

Comment author: orthonormal 30 March 2012 12:10:43AM 5 points [-]

I can't believe you missed the chance to say, "Taboo pirates and ninjas."

Comment author: Humbug 30 March 2012 08:40:35AM * 3 points [-]

I can't believe you missed the chance to say, "Taboo pirates and ninjas."

"Pirates versus Ninjas is the Mind-Killer"

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 30 March 2012 12:19:26AM 1 point [-]

Doesn't work - the accent is on the second syllable.

Comment author: ciphergoth 01 April 2012 03:41:05PM 0 points [-]

Pirates and ninjas taboo - oh my!

Comment author: thomblake 30 March 2012 12:20:41AM 0 points [-]

See, in context I was tricked into reading that Taboo, which is totally not natural.

Comment author: thomblake 30 March 2012 12:17:32AM 0 points [-]

Taboo pirate ninja badger mushroom narwhal!

Comment author: Blueberry 30 March 2012 12:13:41AM 0 points [-]

Oooh yes. Upvoted for awesomeness.

Comment author: wedrifid comment score below threshold [+] (5 children)

Comment author: Bugmaster 30 March 2012 06:36:46PM 1 point [-]

We're talking wikipedia pirates and wikipedia ninjas.

As far as I understand, these two groups have never fought each other in any engagement, having neither the motivation nor the skills to do so. I cannot envision a realistic and deliberate ninja vs. pirate engagement, unless one or both of the parties were drunk or stoned out of their minds. Naturally, I'd assumed you were talking about fictional scenarios.

Comment author: wedrifid 30 March 2012 06:48:12PM -1 points [-]

And, according to my analysis of daenerys' game this constitutes an all too common failure mode for the aforementioned reasons. My estimation of the capabilities of lesswrong participants to handle this sort of question was grossly misscalibrated.

Comment author: Bugmaster 30 March 2012 06:56:59PM 1 point [-]

It sounds like you're saying, "no one is smart enough to comprehend my brilliant point, despite the fact that it's 100% clear and obvious since I am such a great communicator". I believe there may be alternative explanations for people disagreeing with you, however...

Comment author: wedrifid 30 March 2012 07:22:20PM -1 points [-]

It sounds like you're saying, "no one is smart enough to comprehend my brilliant point, despite the fact that it's 100% clear and obvious since I am such a great communicator".

If I said something that means that then I am indeed as bad at communicating as you insinuate. I actually maintain that I haven't made much of a point at all and thought that my initial claim verged on patronizing for stating the obvious.

I also note that the problem isn't that "no one comprehends"... from what I have seen most people here do. It is a matter of whether there are enough exceptions that the conversation can still get derailed into failure modes. Surely you at least agree that the conversation in this thread has been derailed at places? For example, this immediate context appears to include fairly unadorned indicators of disrespect. Nobody likes to hear those - even when they are plain and sincere expressions of the level of disagreement.

Comment author: Bugmaster 30 March 2012 08:35:38PM 1 point [-]

and thought that my initial claim verged on patronizing for stating the obvious.

What's obvious to one person may sound ridiculous to another. Often does, in fact.

Surely you at least agree that the conversation in this thread has been derailed at places?

What, do you mean the original thread, or the pirate vs. ninja thread ? Heh. Anyway, the answer is "yes" to both.

For example, this immediate context appears to include fairly unadorned indicators of disrespect.

Patronizing posts tend to invoke that kind of an atmosphere. In any case, you keep saying that disagreeing with your conclusions is a "failure mode". You may well be right, but so far, I'm not convinced that this is the case. I am prepared to be convinced, however.

Bugmaster comments on SotW: Check Consequentialism - Less Wrong

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