loserthree comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 13, chapter 81 - Less Wrong

6 Post author: bogdanb 27 March 2012 06:07PM

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Comment author: Vaniver 28 March 2012 05:45:20AM 18 points [-]

Harry Potter is not so clever, part 2. (Perhaps I should call this "advice for Harry," to be less negative.)

"I accept your offer," said Harry's lips, without any hesitation, without any decision having been made; just as if the internal debate had been pretense and illusion, the true controller of the voice having been no part of it. "I should have the whole amount ready by the end of the month." It would take his arbitrage trick, but certainly the Headmaster would let him do that instead of going into debt to Malfoy.

Lucius Malfoy stood motionless, frowning down at Harry. "Who is she to you, then? What is she to you, that you would pay so much to keep her from harm?"

"My friend," the boy said quietly. "As is your son- I would have fought as hard and paid as much to keep him from Azkaban."

"Save it," Harry suggested.

"Let us all go home, indeed." His blue eyes were locked on Harry, as hard as sapphires.

Harry looked further up.

"This is how far I go for my friends, Lord Malfoy. And now that Hermione is safe, I would like your permission to visit Draco. "

Overall: what the heck is Harry's model of Malfoy? Why has he not put any effort into developing it? Why, for the love of wisdom, scare him in public?

It may not be too late to turn him from an enemy to an ally, but Harry is making this too hard on himself. His flair for the dramatic is not helping things, either.

Comment author: loserthree 28 March 2012 03:46:18PM 6 points [-]

It's an interest-free loan. Unless the "certain rights" Lucius has over HJPEV until graduation are troublesome, it is in probably HJPEV's best interest to delay paying the loan back as long as possible.

Or unless, I suppose, he expects significant deflation before graduation. I don't think any of the HJPEV's plans that we know of are likely to result in deflation, quite the opposite in fact.

Comment author: Vaniver 29 March 2012 12:11:06AM 8 points [-]

It's an interest-free loan. Unless the "certain rights" Lucius has over HJPEV until graduation are troublesome, it is in probably HJPEV's best interest to delay paying the loan back as long as possible.

Dumbledore was willing to send Hermione to Azkaban to prevent Lucius from getting those rights (well, and the money). It seems likely to me that they're troublesome.

Comment author: TimS 30 March 2012 09:12:35PM 3 points [-]

Or that it doesn't fit Dumbledore's narrative.

Comment author: mjr 28 March 2012 08:41:42PM 2 points [-]

True as such. But storywise it would seem weird to leave this hanging. That's one reason why I'm already irrationally overinvested, I notice, in my theory that it'll get taken care of pretty much on the side by finding out the true culprit and thus cancelling the debt through the Wizengamot or, failing that, possibly through Draco.

There are other options, of course. There have been good points about Dumbledore now having an interest to Make Money Fast for Harry, and about possible other people who might be willing to bankroll a business venture for the newly brightened legend. And, again storywise, I can see handling the "leave it hanging" option in a decent manner as well, if there's some closure about the relations of houses Potter and Malfoy (presumably with Lucius dead or imprisoned and stripped of his status).

Comment author: thomblake 28 March 2012 06:53:32PM -1 points [-]

Wasn't it noted that Lucius would have some extra powers over Harry while he holds the debt?

Comment author: loserthree 29 March 2012 03:46:09PM 0 points [-]

Wasn't it noted that Lucius would have some extra powers over Harry while he holds the debt?

No, not "extra powers." Only, "certain rights," which I mentioned in my post.

Comment author: thomblake 29 March 2012 05:24:47PM 0 points [-]

Weird - I didn't see that the first time.

Out of curiosity, is there a relevant distinction between "extra powers" and "certain rights" as used here?

Comment author: loserthree 29 March 2012 05:47:10PM 1 point [-]

Out of curiosity, is there a relevant distinction between "extra powers" and "certain rights" as used here?

Only that one is what Dumbledore said and I quoted, and the other is what you thought I'd left out.

Comment author: drethelin 28 March 2012 05:12:22PM 0 points [-]

This is only true if you assume harry won't have any other use for money for that whole time, which seems unlikely to me.

Comment author: loserthree 28 March 2012 05:15:18PM 3 points [-]

Either I misunderstand you or you have it exactly wrong.

If HJPEV pays back the no-interest loan early, he has less money to spend in the meantime.

If HJPEV pays back the no-interest loan at the latest possible time, he has plenty of money he can use to make more money, and to spend, in the meantime.

Comment author: drethelin 28 March 2012 05:47:37PM *  2 points [-]

The way I imagine it working is that any money Harry might acquire is automatically spent on paying off his debt, but he doesn't get into trouble if this doesn't pay the debt until he turns 18. I don't think the situation where he makes plenty of money and does not pay off the loan will be allowed. So either Harry can not worry about the debt and pay it off eventually at the cost of not having any money til then, or pay it off sooner and then have free use of money.

Comment author: loserthree 29 March 2012 04:26:28PM 0 points [-]

I don't think we need to rely so much on your imagination.

"I think there's about forty thousand in my Gringotts vault," Harry said. It was strange how that was still causing more internal pain than the thought of taking an over-fifty-percent risk to his life to destroy Azkaban. "As for the other sixty thousand - what are the rules, exactly?"

"It comes due when you graduate Hogwarts," the old wizard said from high above. "But Lord Malfoy has certain rights over you before then, I fear."

If a debt isn't due, it need not be paid on. There's nothing here that says he's required to pay anything else before he graduates.

In fact, it's possible that the author meant us to understand that HJPEV didn't have to pay anything right now and that the whole hundred grand isn't due until graduation. But that would mean the author had been a bit sloppier than I'm fairly confident he is.

Comment author: bogdanb 29 March 2012 08:35:14PM *  2 points [-]

Lucius was still wearing the cold smile. "One hundred thousand Galleons. If you have not that much in your vault, I suppose I must accept a promissory note for the remainder." [...]

"I think there's about forty thousand in my Gringotts vault," Harry said. [...] "As for the other sixty thousand - what are the rules, exactly?"

"It comes due when you graduate Hogwarts," the old wizard said from high above. "But Lord Malfoy has certain rights over you before then, I fear."

Emphasis mine. I think (most of) whatever he has must be payed immediately, and the “due” part is only for the rest.

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