Rational_Brony comments on George Orwell's Prelude on Politics Is The Mind Killer - Less Wrong

10 [deleted] 29 March 2012 04:27PM

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Comment author: Vladimir_M 30 March 2012 05:46:04AM *  20 points [-]

Interestingly, Orwell -- who can hardly be portrayed as a rabid right-wing zealot -- characterizes the intellectual elites of the English-speaking world of his day with these words:

Among the intelligentsia, it hardly needs saying that the dominant form of nationalism is Communism--using this word in a very loose sense, to include not merely Communist Party members, but 'fellow travellers' and russophiles generally.

Rather than extolling Orwell's essay for its applause-lights-inducing qualities, we can ask ourselves -- what does this imply about the descendants of these same intellectual elites today, and about the results one would get from applying Orwell's criteria impartially to the predominant, high-status beliefs of our own day?

After all, the consensus among the respectable mainstream nowadays is that people who shared Orwell's above-quoted opinion back in the day were dangerous, rabid, delusional, and malevolent extremists. There's even a popular term of opprobrium for these people ("McCarthyism"). So, what conclusion should be derived from the facts that: (1) everyone will applaud the general principles espoused by Orwell's essay, and yet (2) Orwell's own application of these principles to the Anglospheric intellectual elites of his own day led him to a conclusion that places him among these frightful extremists, whom any respectable person nowadays can only abhor?

Now, I'm not writing all this to start a discussion about these controversial historical topics. I'm writing to point out that it's easy to fall for the warm fuzzies awoken by a superficial, applause-lights-style agreement with Orwell's general remarks -- while at the same time remaining blissfully oblivious of their actual implications on various opinions that are high-status in the society in which one lives, including the modern Western societies. (Especially considering that the Western intellectual elites of today have direct institutional continuity with those whose "dominant form of nationalism [was] Communism," according to Orwell.)

Comment author: [deleted] 30 March 2012 10:04:39AM 1 point [-]

I will need you to be more explicit with where you're gong with this.

Comment author: [deleted] 30 March 2012 10:18:26AM *  6 points [-]

I think it is pretty obvious. I suggest you especially closely read the paragraphs where Orwell talks about say transferred nationalism and then pause for 5 minutes by the clock to consider what the intellectual descendants of these are in the modern Anglosphere.

TRANSFERRED NATIONALISM

  • (i) COMMUNISM.
  • (ii) POLITICAL [C]ATHOLICISM.
  • (iii) COLOUR FEELING.
  • (iv) CLASS FEELING
  • (v) PACIFISM.

Indeed that whole section basically reads like something out of the altright blogosphere's description of the modern intellectual world. But this is very political of me to directly point out. I'm going to give you a more direct answer that compliments this one in a PM. Vladimir may agree or disagree with my points, but I can understand why he may (I'm not sure he did) want to keep some inferential distances as a protection measure there.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 31 March 2012 02:09:57AM 2 points [-]

Here is a post by Eric Raymond that goes into more details.