Nornagest comments on Rationality Quotes April 2012 - Less Wrong
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You are confusing "fairness" and egalitarianism. While everyone has their own definition of "fairness", it feels obvious to me that, even if you're correct about the cost of imposing reasonable egalitarianism being too high in any given situation, this does not absolve us from seeking some palliative measures to protect those left worst off by that situation. Reducing first the suffering of those who suffer most is an ok partial definition of fairness for me.
Despite (or due to, I'm too sleepy to figure it out) considering myself an egalitarian, I would prefer a world where the most achieving 10% get 200 units of income (and the top 10% of them get 1000), the least achieving 10% get 2 units and everyone else gets 5-15 units (1 unit supporting the lifestyle of today's European blue-collar worker) to a world where the bottom 10% get 0.2 units and everyone else gets 25-50. Isn't that more or less the point of charity (aside from signaling)?
I didn't say this. Actually, I'd consider it somewhat incoherent in the context of my argument: if imposing reasonable egalitarianism (whatever "reasonable" is) was too costly to be sustainable, it seems unlikely that we'd have developed intuitions calling for it.
On the other hand, I suppose one possible scenario where that'd make sense would be if some of the emotional architecture driving our sense of equity evolved in the context of band-level societies, and if that architecture turned out to scale poorly -- but that's rather speculative, somewhat at odds with my sense of history, and in any case irrelevant to the point I was trying to make in the grandparent.
Anyway, don't read too much into it. My point was about the relationship between the world and its mathematics and our anthropomorphic intuitions; I wasn't trying to make any sweeping generalizations about our behavior towards each other, except in the rather limited context of game theory and its various cultural consequences. I certainly wasn't trying to make any prescriptive statements about how charitable we should be.
Some of the local Right are likely to claim that we developed them just for the purpose of signaling, and that they're the worst thing EVAH when applied to reality. ;)
(Please don't take this as a political attack, guys, my debate with you is philosophical. I just need a signifier for you.)
ominous theme music
Well someone certainly has been digging into the LessWrong equivalent of Sith holocrons. You are getting pretty good at integrating their mental tool kit. It has made your thinking clearer, made your positions stronger than would have been otherwise possible.
Now far from me, to question such a search for knowledge. Indeed I commend it. It is a path to great predictive power! You will find that as you continue your studies it can offer many useful heuristics, that some would consider ... unthinkable.
You know, I was not wholly unprepared for this ideological predicament. Since I first became interested in Fascist-like ideas and the history of political conflict surrounding them (during high school), I've always had a hunch that "the enemy" is far wiser, more attractive and more insidious than most people who pretend to "common sense" believe. It is the radical Right themselves and the radical Left who oppose both them and mainstream liberalism (which is "common sense" to our age) that have a more realistic estimate of this conflict's importance. Even in spite of the fact that said Right has been hounded and suppressed since 1940, including, in a gentler way, by moderate conservatives eager to attain a more enlightened image. To quote again from Orwell's review of Mein Kampf:
Of course, the above can't be applied to all such right-wing radicals without adjusting for their personal differences - e.g. Mencius criticizing idealism as the root of all evil both on the right and on the left, while himself possessing a less-than-obvious but very distinct sort of idealism [1] - but still. If exposed to today's political blogosphere, Orwell could undoubtedly have constructed similar respectful warnings for all his radical opponents he'd find solid. The people who dreaded and obsessed over "Fascism", and continue to do so to this day - as well as the contrarians who actually walk that path - have clearer vision than the complacent masses. That the idea is in retreat and on the decline does not affect its strict consistency, decent compatibility with human nature and inherent potential.
Still, when all's said and done I view the situation as half a rational investigation and half a holy war (for a down-to-earth definition of "holy"); I don't currently feel any erosion in my values or see myself reneging at the end of it. Yet - and thank you for your compliment - I'm certainly eager to familiarize myself with as much of the other side's intellectual weaponry as it's possible to without getting significantly Sapir-Whorfed.
-[1] (I'm not going to describe in detail here Moldbug's many similarities and differences with classical thought that has been called fascist; I'll only mention that he himself admitted that calling his vision a "fascist technocracy" has "a grain of truth" - and, of course, I'm rather skeptical of his pretensions to exceptional pragmatism and non-mindkilledness)