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army1987 comments on Rationality Quotes April 2012 - Less Wrong
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FWIW I've read a study that says about 50% of people can't tell the difference between a major and a minor chord even when you label them happy/sad. [ETA: Happy/sad isn't the relevant dimension, see the replies to this comment.] I have no idea how probable that is, but if true it would imply that half of the American population basically can't hear music.
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2074
It shocked the hell out of me, too.
This is weird. It is hard for me to hear the difference in the cadence, but crystal clear otherwise. In the cadence, the problem for me is that the notes are dragging on, like when you press pedal on piano a bit, that makes it hard to discern the difference.
Maybe they lost something in retelling here? Made up new stimuli for which it doesn't work because of harmonics or something?
Or maybe its just me and everyone on this thread? I have a lot of trouble hearing speech through noise (like that of flowing water), i always have to tell others, i am not hearing what you're saying i am washing the dishes. Though i've no idea how well other people can hear something when they are washing the dishes; maybe i care too much not to pretend to listen when i don't hear.
This needs proper study.
The following recordings are played on an acoustic instrument by a human (me), and they have spaces in between the chords. The chord sequences are randomly generated (which means that the major-to-minor ratio is not necessarily 1:1, but all of them do have a mixture of major and minor chords).
Each of the following two recordings is a sequence of eight C major or C minor chords:
Each of the following two recordings is a sequence of eight "cadences" -- groups of four chords that are either
F B♭ C F
or
F B♭ Cminor F
Edit: Here's a listing of the chords in all four sound files.
Edit 2 (2012-Apr-22): I added another recording that contains these chords:
repeated over and over, while the balance between the voices is varied, from "all voices roughly equal" to "only the second voice from the top audible". The second voice from the top is the only one that is different on the C minor chord. My idea is that hearing the changing voice foregrounded from its context like this might make it easier to pick it out when it's not foregrounded.
Ditto for me -- The difference between the two chords is crystal clear, but in the cadence I can barely hear it.
I'm not a professional, but I sang in school chorus for 6 years, was one of the more skilled singers there, I've studied a little musical theory, and I apparently have a lot of natural talent. And the first time I heard the version played in cadence I didn't notice the difference at all. Freaky. I know how that post-doc felt when she couldn't hear the difference in the chords.
I am with you on easily telling the two apart in the original chords but being unable to reliably tell the difference in the cadence version.
I added another recording. See "Edit 2" in this comment for an explanation.
Nope, the audio examples are all straightforward realizations of the corresponding music notation. (They are easy for me to tell apart.)
Still, the notes drag on, the notes have harmonics, etc. It is not pure sine waves that abruptly stop and give time for the ear to 'clear' of afterimage-like sound.
I hear the difference in the cadence, it's just that I totally can't believe it can possibly be clearer than just the one chord then another chord. I can tell apart just the two chords at much lower volume level and/or paying much less attention.
I've had between a dozen and two dozen music students over the years. (Guitar and bass guitar.) Some of them started out having trouble telling the difference between ascending and descending intervals. (In other words, some of them had bad ears.) All of them improved, and all of them, with practice, were able to hear me play something and play it back by ear. I'm sure there are some people who are neurologically unable to do this, but in general, it is a learnable skill.
The cognitive fun! website has a musical interval exercise.
Edit: One disadvantage to that exercise/game for people who aren't already familiar with the intervals is that it doesn't have you differentiate between major and minor intervals. (So if you select e.g. 2 and 8 as your intervals, you'll be hearing three different intervals, because some of the 2nds will be minor rather than major.) Sooner or later I'll write my own interval game!
is this what you're looking for?
http://www.musictheory.net/exercises/ear-interval
That's pretty cool. Are there keybindings?
I don't know, doesn't look like it.
Likewise.
I was going to comment about how the individual chords were clearly different to my ear but the "stereotypical I-IV-V-I cadential sequences" were indistinguishable, precisely the reverse of the experience the Bell Labs post doc reportedly reported. Then I read the comments on the article and realized this is fairly common, so I deleted the comment. Then I decided to comment on it anyway. Now I have.
I had to listen to that second part several times before I could pick up the difference too. They sound equivalent unless I concentrate.
And me. I guess - as most probable explanation - they just lost something crucial in retelling. The notes drag on a fair bit in the second part. I can hear the difference if I really concentrate. But its ilke a typo in the text. If the text was blurred.
The second sequence sounded jarringly wrong to me, FWIW.