DanielLC comments on [SEQ RERUN] Where Philosophy Meets Science - Less Wrong

4 Post author: MinibearRex 02 April 2012 03:50AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (8)

You are viewing a single comment's thread.

Comment author: DanielLC 02 April 2012 04:30:25AM 0 points [-]

I'd say their biggest mistake was not realizing that if consciousness really was fundamental, they could make a test for it, then after realizing it couldn't distinguish a human from a rock, realize that consciousness may not actually have anything to do with it.

Comment author: shminux 02 April 2012 06:00:26AM 0 points [-]

If it is that easy, how come Penrose kept insisting on consciousness being involved in the collapse?

Comment author: Mitchell_Porter 02 April 2012 08:18:33AM 6 points [-]

That's not what Penrose thinks. He suggests spontaneous collapses happening according to some law of quantum gravity.

The basic error about the history of the interpretation debate, that people get from the sequences, is that it's a choice between "the wavefunction is real and consciousness collapses it" and "the wavefunction is real and nothing collapses it". The actual practice of QM involves using wavefunctions to predict the behavior of "observables" like position and momentum, and the standard view is that the observables are what's real and that the wavefunctions are just constructs like probability distributions. Most physicists believe neither in many worlds nor in consciousness as a fundamental "force".

Comment author: Luke_A_Somers 05 April 2012 07:08:12AM 0 points [-]

Most? Got some numbers on that?

Comment author: Mitchell_Porter 06 April 2012 03:35:41PM 0 points [-]

Wikipedia reports a few polls and estimates, but it's sort of obvious, if you have any acquaintance with physicists and the physics literature, that neither consciousness nor Everett worlds feature in the vast majority of what goes on in the subject. The crucial idea is that "measurement", not consciousness, collapses the wavefunction... I think a majority of physicists equivocate somewhat on whether wavefunctions are physical or epistemic, another large group explicitly consider that a meaningless question, and then finally there are those who have a thought-out personal philosophy of what QM means about reality. Anyone who believes in many worlds will be in that last group... along with the Bohmians, the "noncommutative probability" believers, and dozens of other eccentric minorities.

Have a look through a month's worth of papers in the quant-ph section at arxiv to see what I'm talking about. Papers "finally explaining quantum mechanics" (or "the meaning of entanglement", etc) are common - there are several each week - and a few of them are many-worlds papers, but only a few.

Comment author: shminux 02 April 2012 02:50:51PM 0 points [-]

If by real you mean measurable (=observable), I agree, but then your statement becomes a tautology.

Comment author: David_Gerard 02 April 2012 07:19:26AM -1 points [-]

The usual argument from wishful thinking? Humans consistently have an opinion on dualism then seek to justify it with what they think they know, not the other way round.