Will_Newsome comments on Evidence for the orthogonality thesis - Less Wrong

11 Post author: Stuart_Armstrong 03 April 2012 10:58AM

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Comment author: cousin_it 03 April 2012 09:32:19PM *  4 points [-]

If the AI's map represents the territory accurately enough, the AI can use the map to check the consequences of returning different actions, then pick one action and return it, ipso facto affecting the territory. I think I already know how to build a working paperclipper in a Game of Life universe, and it doesn't seem to wirehead itself. Do you have a strong argument why all non-magical real-world AIs will wirehead themselves before they get a chance to hurt humans?

Comment author: Will_Newsome 04 April 2012 05:05:19AM 1 point [-]

Perhaps it's also worth bringing up the example of controllers, which don't wirehead (or do they, once sufficiently complex?) and do optimize the real world. (Thermostats confuse me. Do they have intentionality despite lacking explicit representations? (FWIW Searle told me the answer was no because of something about consciousness, but I'm not sure how seriously he considered my question.))

Comment author: JGWeissman 04 April 2012 05:25:02AM 3 points [-]

Thermostats confuse me. Do they have intentionality despite lacking explicit representations?

You are looking for intentionality in the wrong place. Why do thermostats exist? Follow the improbability.

Comment author: Will_Newsome 04 April 2012 05:36:53AM 2 points [-]

Yes, actual thermostats got their shard of the Void from humans, just as humans got their shard of the Void from evolution. (I'd say "God" and not "the Void", but whatever.) But does evolution have intentionality? The point is to determine whether or not intentionality is fundamentally different from seemingly-simpler kinds of optimization—and if it's not, then why does symbol grounding seem like such a difficult problem? ...Or something, my brain is too stressed to actually think.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 04 April 2012 05:20:03AM 1 point [-]

Taboo "intentionality".

Comment author: Will_Newsome 04 April 2012 05:46:10AM 0 points [-]

Yes, discerning the hidden properties of "intentionality" is the goal which motivates looking at the edge case of thermostats.