ec429 comments on [link] Is Alu Life? - Less Wrong

-8 Post author: ec429 07 April 2012 09:24PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (18)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: ec429 08 April 2012 01:02:14AM *  4 points [-]

Hmm. I do understand that, but I still don't think it's relevant. I don't try to argue that Premise 1 is true (except in a throwaway parenthetical which I am considering retracting), rather I'm arguing that Premise 2 is true, and that consequently Premise 1 implies the conclusion ("transposons have ethical value") which in turn implies various things ranging from the disconcerting to the absurd. In fact I believed Premise 1 (albeit without great examination) until I learned about transposons, and now I doubt it (though I haven't rejected it so far; I'm cognitively marking it as "I'm confused about this"). That's why I felt there was something worth writing about: namely, that transposons expose the absurdity of an assumption that had previously been part of my moral theory, and by extension may perhaps be part of others'.

Edit: well, that's one reason I wrote the article. The other reason was to raise the questions in the hope of creating a discussion through which I might come to better understand the problem.

Further edit: actually, I'm not sure the first reason was my reason for writing the article; I think I was indeed (initially) arguing for Premise 1, and I have been trying to make excuses and pretend I'd never argued for it. Yet I still can't let go of Premise 1 completely. Thought experiment: imagine a planet with a xenobiology that only supports plant life - nothing sentient lives there or could do so - and there is (let us assume) no direct benefit to us to be derived from its existence. Would we think it acceptable to destroy that planet? I think not, yet the obvious "feature conferring ethical value on humans and chimps" would be sentience. I remain confused.

Comment author: pedanterrific 08 April 2012 08:18:55AM 1 point [-]

hought experiment: imagine a planet with a xenobiology that only supports plant life - nothing sentient lives there or could do so - and there is (let us assume) no direct benefit to us to be derived from its existence. Would we think it acceptable to destroy that planet?

I think this scenario is a little difficult to visualize- an entire biosphere we can't derive a benefit from, even for sheer curiosity's sake? So, applying the LCPW: the planet has been invaded by a single species of xenokudzu, which has choked out all other life but is thriving merrily on its own (maybe it's an ecocidal bioweapon or something). Would it be acceptable to destroy that planet? I'd say yes. Agree / disagree / think my changes alter the question?

Comment author: ec429 08 April 2012 01:00:32PM *  0 points [-]

Agree, and think your changes alter the question I was trying to ask, which is, not whether destroying Xenokudzu Planet would be absolutely unacceptable (as a rule, most things aren't), but whether we'd need a sufficiently good reason.

which has choked out all other life

I think the LCPW for you here is to suppose that this planet is only capable of supporting this xenokudzu, and no other kind of life. (Maybe the xenokudzu is plasma helices, and the 'planet' is actually a sun, and suppose for the sake of argument that that environment can't support sentient life)

So, more generally, let the gain (to non-xenokudzu utility) from destroying Xeno Planet tend to zero. Is there a point at which you choose not to destroy, or will any nonzero positive gain to sentient life justify wiping out Xeno Planet?

Comment author: pedanterrific 08 April 2012 07:32:12PM 0 points [-]

So, if I were building a planet-destroying superlaser (for, um, mining I guess) I wouldn't see any particular difference between testing it on Kudzu World or the barren rock next door.

Comment author: ec429 08 April 2012 08:23:24PM 0 points [-]

That's interesting, because I would see a difference. Given the choice, I'd test it on the barren rock. However, I can't justify that, nor am I sure how much benefit I'd have to derive to be willing to blow up Eta Kudzunae.

Comment author: faul_sname 08 April 2012 07:37:32AM *  1 point [-]

Interestingly, the gut reaction I had to destroying plant planet was "NO! We could learn so much!". But then I think I value interesting information, not life.