wedrifid comments on Our Phyg Is Not Exclusive Enough - Less Wrong

25 [deleted] 14 April 2012 09:08PM

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Comment author: Bugmaster 15 April 2012 04:56:59AM 4 points [-]

What is the difference between knowledge and opinion? Are the points in the sequences true or not?

Some proportion of them (between 0 and 100%) are true, others are false or neither. Not being omniscient, I can't tell you which ones are which; I can only tell you which ones I believe are likely to be true with some probability. The proportion of those is far smaller than 100%, IMO.

Read map and territory, and understand the way of Bayes.

See, it's exactly this kind of ponderous verbiage that leads to the necessity for rot13-ing certain words.

...without getting bogged down by having to explain that there's no qualitative difference between opinion and fact.

I believe that there is a significant difference between opinion and fact, though arguably not a qualitative one. For example, "rocks tend to fall down" is a fact, but "the Singularity is imminent" is an opinion -- in my opinion -- and so is "we should kick out anyone who hadn't read the entirety of the Sequences".

Identifying a problem and identifying myself among people who don't want a particular type of solution (relaxing LW's phygish standards), doesn't mean I support any particular straw-solution.

When you said "we should make LW more exclusive", what did you mean, then ?

In any case, I do have a solution for you: why don't you just code up a Greasemonkey scriptlet (or something similar) to hide the comments of anyone with less than, say, 5000 karma ? This way you can browse the site in peace, without getting distracted by our pedestrian mutterings. Better yet, you could have your scriptlet simply blacklist everyone by default, except for certain specific usernames whom you personally approve of. Then you can create your own "phyg" and make it as exclusive as you want.

Comment author: wedrifid 15 April 2012 06:34:10AM 4 points [-]

Read map and territory, and understand the way of Bayes.

See, it's exactly this kind of ponderous verbiage that leads to the necessity for rot13-ing certain words.

Specifically 'the way of'. Would you have the same objection with 'and understand how bayesian updating works'? (Objection to presumptuousness aside.)

Comment author: Bugmaster 15 April 2012 08:06:05AM 5 points [-]

Probably. The same sentiment could be expressed as something like this:

The map is not the territory; if you understood how Bayesian updating works, you would know that facts and opinions are qualitatively the same.

This phrasing is still a bit condescending, but a). it gives an actual link for me to read an educate my ignorant self, and b). it makes the speaker sound merely like a stuck-up long-timer, instead of a creepy phyg-ist.

Comment author: wedrifid 15 April 2012 08:23:02AM -1 points [-]

The map is not the territory; if you understood how Bayesian updating works, you would know that facts and opinions are qualitatively the same.

This phrasing is still a bit condescending

Educating people is like that!

What I would have said about the phrasing is that it is wrong.

Comment author: Bugmaster 15 April 2012 08:30:42AM 0 points [-]

Educating people is like that!

Merely telling people that they aren't worthy is not very educational; it's much better to tell them why you think they aren't worthy, which is where the links come in.

What I would have said about the phrasing is that it is wrong.

Sure, but I have no problem with people being wrong, that's what updating is for :-)

Comment author: wedrifid 15 April 2012 09:25:28AM 1 point [-]

Merely telling people that they aren't worthy is not very educational; it's much better to tell them why you think they aren't worthy, which is where the links come in.

Huh? This was your example, one you advocated and one that includes a link. I essentially agreed with one of your points - your retort seems odd.

Sure, but I have no problem with people being wrong, that's what updating is for :-)

Huh again? You seemed to have missed a level of abstraction.