gwern comments on Our Phyg Is Not Exclusive Enough - Less Wrong

25 [deleted] 14 April 2012 09:08PM

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Comment author: Anatoly_Vorobey 16 April 2012 06:44:23AM 27 points [-]

Because people on LW are weird. Instead of discussing natural and sane topics, such as cute kittens, iPhone prices, politics, horoscopes, celebrities, sex, et cetera, they talk abour crazy stuff like thinking machines and microscopic particles. Someone should do them a favor, turn off their computers, and buy them a few beers, so that normal people can stop being afraid of them.

No, that isn't it. LW isn't at all special in that respect - a huge number of specialized communities exist on the net which talk about "crazy stuff", but no one suspects them of being phygs. Your self-deprecating description is a sort of applause lights for LW that's not really warranted.

Because LW is trying to change the way people think, and that is scary. Things like that are OK only when the school system is doing it, because the school system is accepted by the majority. Books are usually also accepted, but only if you borrow them from a public library.

No, that isn't it. Every self-help book (of which there's a huge industry, and most of which are complete crap) is "trying to change the way people think", and nobody sees that as weird. The Khan academy is challenging the school system, and nobody thinks they're phyggish. Attempts to change the way people think are utterly commonplace, both small-scale and large-scale. And the part about books and public libraries is just weird (what?).

Because people on LW pretend they know some things better that everyone else, and that's an open challenge that someone should go and kick their butts, preferably literally.

Unwarranted applause lights again. Everybody pretends they know some things better than everyone else. Certainly any community does that rallies around experts on some particular topic. With "preferably literally" you cross over into the whining victimhood territory.

What's worse, people on LW have the courage to disagree even with some popular people, and that's pretty much insane.

The self-pandering here is particularly strong, almost middle-school grade stuff.

You've done a very poor job trying to explain why LW is accused of being phyggish.

There are no known examples of families broken when a family member refuses to submit to eternal knowledge of the Scriptures. [...] There are no known examples of violence or blackmail towards a former LW participant who decided to stop reading LW. [...] Minus the typical internet procrastination, there are no known examples of people who have lost years of their time and thousands of dollars, ruined their social and professional lives in their blind following of the empty promises LW gave them.

This, on the other hand, is a great, very strong point that everyone who finds themselves wary of (perceived or actual) phyggishness on LW should remind themselves of. I'm thinking of myself in particular, and thank you for this strong reminder, so forcefully phrased. I have to be doing something wrong, since I frequently ponder about this or that comment on LW that seems to exemplify phyggish thinking to me, but I never counter to myself with something like what I just quoted.

Comment author: gwern 16 April 2012 02:44:47PM 6 points [-]

No, that isn't it. Every self-help book (of which there's a huge industry, and most of which are complete crap) is "trying to change the way people think", and nobody sees that as weird.

Seriously?

Comment author: Anatoly_Vorobey 16 April 2012 06:46:03PM 3 points [-]

Which part of my comment are you incredulous about?

Comment author: gwern 16 April 2012 07:00:51PM 13 points [-]

That nobody sees self-help books as weird or cultlike.