SkyDK comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 16, chapter 85 - Less Wrong

9 Post author: FAWS 18 April 2012 02:30AM

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Comment author: SkyDK 18 April 2012 03:44:40PM 0 points [-]

Not to mention perfect self-motivation.. Actually I still don't understand why it is not used that way. Unbreakable Vows only require energy until said vow is fulfilled right?

Seems to be a lot more effective than A. Robbins...

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 18 April 2012 04:50:50PM 5 points [-]

Nope, ritual magic = permanent sacrifice.

Comment author: chaosmosis 18 April 2012 08:23:12PM 4 points [-]

Now we can make the Death Eaters bind trivial Unbreakable Vows over and over again until they lose all of their magic. So now Azkaban is unnecessary and the initial problem with Unbreakable Vows allowing for easy solutions to the prison vs. execution dilemma resurfaces again.

Comment author: JoshuaZ 18 April 2012 08:28:51PM 5 points [-]

Trivial vows might not trigger the ritual correctly. Remember one of the participants has to have had the option of trying to trust the person in question and choose not to. A vow over something that they'd have no reason to trust the person on otherwise may not work.

Comment author: chaosmosis 19 April 2012 12:04:27AM 0 points [-]

The initial statement seems plausible but not the reason you gave for it. Even trivial assertions involve trust. Your statement "a vow over something that they'd have no reason to trust the person on otherwise" reverses the burden of proof/trust that must be overcome. You still have to choose to trust someone even if you don't have evidence saying that they break promises, lacking evidence proving them distrustful does not preclude having to choose to actively trust them.

Comment author: SkyDK 19 April 2012 12:28:42PM 4 points [-]

One major problem concerns the legal rights of magical criminals; what if you're later found to be innocent? There'll be no way to reclaim their magic. Hence I doubt Harry would prefer this solution.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 19 April 2012 06:44:23AM 4 points [-]

That reminds me-- at some point in canon, Dumbledore says "There are worse things than dying", and my original thought was that Voldemort could be turned into a Muggle. As it turned out, Dumbledore presumably meant the consequences of creating Horcruxes, but I do wonder how Voldeort would manage if he were turned into a Muggle.

Comment author: SkyDK 18 April 2012 05:06:23PM 1 point [-]

Thank you; I even managed to figure that out myself (with the help of our ever vigilant and watchful google); as seen in my response to Desrtopa (24 seconds before you clicked the comment button apparently).

Comment author: thomblake 18 April 2012 05:40:36PM 1 point [-]

with the help of our ever vigilant and watchful Google

FTFY. Show proper reverence, heathen!

Comment author: Desrtopa 18 April 2012 04:28:38PM *  1 point [-]

Not to mention perfect self-motivation.. Actually I still don't understand why it is not used that way. Unbreakable Vows only require energy until said vow is fulfilled right?

I don't think this is ever stated, and I'd err on the side of assuming not, because that would make them easier to abuse, which would be narratively inconvenient.

Comment author: SkyDK 18 April 2012 04:50:26PM 4 points [-]

Makes sense. I was confused so I looked it up: "And the third wizard, the binder, permanently sacrifices a small portion of their own magic, to sustain the Vow forever." I guess the self-improvement part is out of the question then...

Still; it'd be a pretty hardcore thing to do for an ambitious dying grandfather. Make his grandson, age 3, swear the vow (something along the lines: "I will never spend an awake moment on anything except improving my abilities or the situation of my family" - it could be phrased better) and then die happily.

Comment author: wedrifid 18 April 2012 04:57:07PM 16 points [-]

Still; it'd be a pretty hardcore thing to do for an ambitious dying grandfather. Make his grandson, age 3, swear the vow (something along the lines: "I will never spend an awake moment on anything except improving my abilities or the situation of my family" - it could be phrased better) and then die happily.

Age three? Does the vow actually impel you adhere to it or does it just kill you when you are about to break it? (I thought the latter.) Didn't he just kill his grandson?

Comment author: ArisKatsaris 18 April 2012 07:27:53PM 5 points [-]

In canon at least, you just die if you break the Vow.