Eliezer_Yudkowsky comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, part 16, chapter 85 - Less Wrong

9 Post author: FAWS 18 April 2012 02:30AM

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Comment author: Armok_GoB 02 May 2012 09:23:28PM 1 point [-]

I might be missing something obvious, but I don't think it implies single world quantum mechanics. It certainly makes it messier thou.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 04 May 2012 12:12:46AM 1 point [-]

You can't have a "stable time loop" without a single future.

Comment author: Armok_GoB 04 May 2012 09:10:26PM 6 points [-]

You sure can! It's a bit hard on the complexity, but probably less so than spontaneous collapse.

there are a bunch of different versions, the most obvious (but not only) class consists of proceeding the simulation as if time travel didn't exist then pruning paradoxical branches retroactively. There's tweaks and hacks needed to figure out how that actually works with interference, and to fix the problem of any branch where time travel is invented at all losing all it's measure in effect acting as a probability pump preventing it, but you're smarter than me and can probably work out better versions.

Just think about it for 5 minutes. ;p

Comment author: JoshuaZ 04 May 2012 12:32:01AM 2 points [-]

Can't you have mixed states that are stable or at least self-consistent? Something like there's a 50% chance you go back and kill your grandfather and there's then a 50% chance you don't exist? I seem to remember David Deutsch discussing something similar at one point.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 04 May 2012 03:52:07AM 2 points [-]

Yes, but that's not a "stable time loop" as portrayed in either cannon or MoR.

Comment author: ialdabaoth 19 July 2013 12:31:40AM *  1 point [-]

You can if nearby Everett branches reinforce each other and 'bleed over' into each other. Then you wind up with a bifurcation diagram, with each path's "weight" based on the number of other paths that are close/similar enough to reinforce it, and some paths can converge into the internal appearance of a stable time loop.

Comment author: drnickbone 16 October 2012 08:54:28PM *  1 point [-]

It may be better to put it like this: "if there are many worlds, then time travel would generally create loops across worlds; it does not force consistency within a single world".

However, if the Source of Magic is careful how it sets up the loops, it can force a consistent outcome, or at least force one of the consistent outcomes to become much more probable than any inconsistent outcome (one which loops between worlds). In particular this still allows any NP problem, or indeed any PSPACE problem, to be solved in polynomial time using tricks like Harry's factorisation attempt (though perhaps with a small probability of failure). See Scott Aaranson's wonderful lecture here.

So the fact that Harry always observes a consistent single-world loop doesn't by itself imply a single world interpretation, or any non-computability. It simply means that the Source of Magic is a PSPACE oracle!

Comment author: thomblake 09 May 2012 10:57:27PM 0 points [-]

As soon as I saw the stable time loop in HPMOR, I thought, "Oh, they're all in a simulation."

Comment author: hirvinen 18 July 2013 08:00:46AM 0 points [-]

I think a simulation (Y) is a process of mimicking something else (X). In which case we should not observe in Y something (Z) that couldn't happen in X.

So maybe we should rather say that Y is a game with otherwise X-like rules, but additional rules that allow Z, rather than calling it simulation. Or at least I think if "simulation" Y is not an accurate simulation of X, we should use some explicit qualifier to indicate its non-accuracy.