pangloss comments on The Sin of Underconfidence - Less Wrong

55 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 20 April 2009 06:30AM

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Comment author: ciphergoth 21 April 2009 06:15:40AM 2 points [-]

Carrier lost by his own admission, on his home territory.

I've given a lot of thought to how I'd combat what he says, and what I think it comes down to is that standard, "simple" atheism that says "where is your evidence" isn't going to work; I would explicitly lead with the fact that religious language is completely incoherent and does not constitute an assertion about the world at all, and so there cannot be such a thing as evidence for it. And I would anticipate the way he's going to mock it by going there first: "I'm one of those closed-minded scientists who says he'll ignore the evidence for Jesus". At least when I play the debate out in my head, this is always where we end up, and if we start there I can deny him some cheap point scoring.

Comment author: pangloss 21 April 2009 06:27:11AM 0 points [-]

I don't think making a move towards logical positivism or adopting a verificationist criterion of meaning would count as a victory.

Comment author: ciphergoth 21 April 2009 06:40:29AM 0 points [-]

You don't have to do either of those things, I don't think. Have a look at the argument set out in George H Smith's "Atheism: the Case against God".

Comment author: pangloss 21 April 2009 02:35:36PM 1 point [-]

I didn't think that one had to. That is what your challenge to the theist sounded like. I think that religious language is coherent but false, just like phlogiston or caloric language.

Denying that the theist is even making an assertion, or that their language is coherent is a characteristic feature of positivism/verificationism, which is why I said that.

Comment author: ciphergoth 21 April 2009 03:49:03PM 0 points [-]

No, I think it extends beyond that - see eg No Logical Positivist I