TheOtherDave comments on If epistemic and instrumental rationality strongly conflict - Less Wrong

5 [deleted] 10 May 2012 01:46PM

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Comment author: Ghatanathoah 10 May 2012 05:40:35AM 20 points [-]

Yes, you probably think you care about believing truth – but isn’t it more plausible that you mainly care about thinking you like truth? Doesn’t that have a more plausible evolutionary origin than actually caring about far truth?

Imagine I told Robin Hanson I liked the way chocolate tastes. Do you think he'd reply: "Yes, you probably think you like the taste of chocolate – but isn’t it more plausible that you mainly care about eating calorically dense foods so you can store up fat for the winter? Doesn’t that have a more plausible evolutionary origin than actually caring about the taste of chocolate?" Of course not, because that would sound silly. It's only for abstract intellectual desires that someone can get away with a statement like that.

If evolution "wants" you to eat calorically dense foods it doesn't make you actually want calories, it just makes you like the way the foods taste. And if evolution "wants" you to appear to care about truth to impress people the most efficient way for it to accomplish that is to make you actually care about the truth. That way you don't have to keep your lies straight. People don't think they care about the truth, they actually do.

I know that that's Hanson's quote, not yours, but the fact that you quote it indicates you agree with it to some extent.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 10 May 2012 03:56:34PM 1 point [-]

It seems to follow from this line of reasoning that after evolving in a complex environment, I should expect to be constructed in such a way as to care about different things at different times in different contexts, and to consider what I care about at any given moment to be the thing I "really" care about, even if I can remember behaving in ways that are inconsistent with caring about it.

Which certainly seems consistent with my observations of myself.

It also seems to imply that statements like "I actually care about truth" are at best approximate averages, similar to "Americans like hamburgers."

Comment author: Ghatanathoah 11 May 2012 05:49:45AM *  -1 points [-]

It seems to follow from this line of reasoning that after evolving in a complex environment, I should expect to be constructed in such a way as to care about different things at different times in different contexts, and to consider what I care about at any given moment to be the thing I "really" care about, even if I can remember behaving in ways that are inconsistent with caring about it.

Other possibilities:

  • Evolution could also make you simply care about lots and lots of different things and simply have them change in salience as per your situation. This seems to fit well with the concept of complexity of value.
  • Evolution could give you stable preferences and then give you akrasia so you screw them up if you end up in an environment where they are maladaptive.
  • Some combination of these.
Comment author: TheOtherDave 11 May 2012 12:26:57PM 0 points [-]

Can you clarify how one might tell the difference between caring about different things at different times in different contexts, and caring about lots of different things that change in salience as per my situation? I agree with you that the latter is just as likely, but I also can't imagine a way of telling the two apart, and I'm not entirely convinced that they aren't just two labels for the same thing.

Similar things are true about having akrasia based on context vs. having how much I care about things change based on context.

Comment author: Ghatanathoah 13 May 2012 08:34:22PM -1 points [-]

I think that the fact that people exhibit prudence is evidence for caring about many things that change in salience. For instance, if I'm driving home from work and I think "I need groceries, but I'm really tired and don't want to go to the grocery story," there's a good chance I''ll make myself go anyway. That's because I know that even if my tiredness is far more salient now, I know that having food in my pantry will be salient in the future.

I suppose you could model prudence as caring about different things in different contexts, but you'd need to add that you nearly always care about ensuring a high future preference satisfaction state on top of whatever you're caring about at the moment.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 13 May 2012 10:15:16PM 0 points [-]

I'm not exactly sure I follow you here, but I certainly agree that we can care about more than one thing at a time (e.g., expectation of future food and expectation of future sleep) and weigh those competing preferences against one another.