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lukeprog comments on Thoughts on the Singularity Institute (SI) - Less Wrong
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Probably not. He and I continue to dialogue in private about the point, in part to find the source of our disagreement.
I believe everyone except Eliezer currently makes between $42k/yr and $48k/yr — pretty low for the cost of living in the Bay Area.
So, if you disagree with Holden, I assume you think SIers have superior general rationality: why?
And I'm confident SIers will score well on rationality tests, but that looks like specialized rationality. I.e., you can avoid a bias but you can't avoid a failure in your achieving your goals. To me, the SI approach seems poorly leveraged. I expect more significant returns from simple knowledge acquisition. E.g., you want to become successful? YOU WANT TO WIN?! Great, read these textbooks on microeconomics, finance, and business. I think this is more the approach you take anyway.
That isn't as bad as I thinking it was; I don't know if that's optimal, but it seems at least reasonable.
I'll avoid double-labor on this and wait to reply until my conversation with Holden is done.
Right. Exercise the neglected virtue of scholarship and all that.
It's not that easy to dismiss; if it's as poorly leveraged as it looks relative to other approaches then you have little reason to be spreading and teaching SI's brand of specialized rationality (except for perhaps income).
I'm not dismissing it, I'm endorsing it and agreeing with you that it has been my approach ever since my first post on LW.
Weird, I have this perception of SI being heavily invested in overcoming biases and epistemic rationality training to the detriment of relevant domain specific knowledge, but I guess that's wrong?
I'm lost again; I don't know what you're saying.
I wasn't talking about you; I was talking about SI's approach in spreading and training rationality. You(SI) have Yudkowsky writing books, you have rationality minicamps, you have lesswrong, you and others are writing rationality articles and researching the rationality literature, and so on.
That kind of rationality training, research, and message looks poorly leveraged in achieving your goals, is what I'm saying. Poorly leveraged for anyone trying to achieve goals. And at its most abstract, that's what rationality is, right? Achieving your goals.
So, I don't care if your approach was to acquire as much relevant knowledge as possible before dabbling in debiasing, bayes, and whatnot (i.e., prioritizing the most leveraged approach). I wondering why your approach doesn't seem to be SI's approach. I'm wondering why SI doesn't prioritize rationality training, research, and message by whatever is the most leveraged in achieving SI's goals. I'm wondering why SI doesn't spread the virtue of scholarship to the detriment of training debiasing and so on.
SI wants to raise the sanity waterline, is what the SI doing even near optimal for that? Knowing what SIers knew and trained for couldn't even get them to see an opportunity for trading in on opportunity cost for years; that is sad.
(Disclaimer: the following comment should not be taken to imply that I myself have concluded that SI staff salaries should be reduced.)
I'll grant you that it's pretty low relative to other Bay Area salaries. But as for the actual cost of living, I'm less sure.
I'm not fortunate enough to be a Bay Area resident myself, but here is what the internet tells me:
After taxes, a $48,000/yr gross salary in California equates to a net of around $3000/month.
A 1-bedroom apartment in Berkeley and nearby places can be rented for around $1500/month. (Presumably, this is the category of expense where most of the geography-dependent high cost of living is contained.)
If one assumes an average spending of $20/day on food (typically enough to have at least one of one's daily meals at a restaurant), that comes out to about $600/month.
That leaves around $900/month for miscellaneous expenses, which seems pretty comfortable for a young person with no dependents.
So, if these numbers are right, it seems that this salary range is actually right about what the cost of living is. Of course, this calculation specifically does not include costs relating to signaling (via things such as choices of housing, clothing, transportation, etc.) that one has more money than necessary to live (and therefore isn't low-status). Depending on the nature of their job, certain SI employees may need, or at least find it distinctly advantageous for their particular duties, to engage in such signaling.