Logos01 comments on I Stand by the Sequences - Less Wrong

14 Post author: Grognor 15 May 2012 10:21AM

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Comment author: Logos01 15 May 2012 07:51:38PM 3 points [-]

and dramatically simpler than the Copenhagen interpretation

No, it is exactly as complicated. As demonstrated by its utilization of exactly the same mathematics.

. It rules out a lot of the abnormal conclusions that people draw from Copenhagen, e.g. ascribing mystical powers to consciousness, senses, or instruments.

It is not without its own extra entities of equally enormously additive nature however; and even and those abnormal conclusions are as valid from the CI as is quantum immortality from MWI.

-- I speak as someone who rejects both.

Comment author: JoshuaZ 15 May 2012 08:13:55PM 1 point [-]

No, it is exactly as complicated. As demonstrated by its utilization of exactly the same mathematics.

Not all formalizations that give the same observed predictions have the same Kolmogorov complexity, and this is true even for much less rigorous notions of complexity. For example, consider a computer program that when given a positive integer n, outputs the nth prime number. One simple thing it could do is simply use trial division. But another could use some more complicated process, like say brute force searching for a generator of (Z/pZ)*.

In this case, the math being used is pretty similar, so the complexity shouldn't be that different. But that's a more subtle and weaker claim.

Comment author: dlthomas 15 May 2012 09:43:56PM 2 points [-]

Not all formalizations that give the same observed predictions have the same Kolmogorov complexity[.]

Is that true? I thought Kolmogorov complexity was "the length of the shortest program that produces the observations" - how can that not be a one place function of the observations?

Comment author: JoshuaZ 15 May 2012 11:25:56PM 1 point [-]

Yes. In so far as the output is larger than the set of observations. Take MWI for example- the output includes all the parts of the wavebranch that we can't see. In contrast, Copenhagen only has outputs that we by and large do see. So the key issue here is that outputs and observable outputs aren't the same thing.

Comment author: dlthomas 16 May 2012 12:43:52AM 1 point [-]

Ah, fair. So in this case, we are imagining a sequence of additional observations (from a privileged position we cannot occupy) to explain.

Comment author: Logos01 16 May 2012 06:20:21AM 0 points [-]

Not all formalizations that give the same observed predictions have the same Kolmogorov complexity, and this is true even for much less rigorous notions of complexity.

Sure. But MWI and CI use the same formulae. They take the same inputs and produce the same outputs.

Everything else is just that -- interpretation.

One simple thing it could do is simply use trial division. But another could use some more complicated process, like say brute force searching for a generator of (Z/pZ)*.

And those would be different calculations.

In this case, the math being used is pretty similar,

No, it's the same math.

Comment author: JoshuaZ 16 May 2012 03:28:09PM *  -2 points [-]

The interpretation in this context can imply unobserved output. See the discussion with dlthomas below. Part of the issue is that the interpretation isn't separate from the math.

Comment author: Logos01 17 May 2012 01:10:32PM -2 points [-]

"Entities must not be replicated beyond necessity". Both interpretations violate this rule. The only question is which violates it more. And the answer to that seems to one purely of opinion.

So throwing out the extra stuff -- they're using exactly the same math.