steven0461 comments on Instrumental vs. Epistemic -- A Bardic Perspective - Less Wrong

66 Post author: MBlume 25 April 2009 07:41AM

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Comment author: mattnewport 29 April 2009 06:53:07PM 2 points [-]

the degree to which men pursue good-looking women is probably even greater than can be explained by rational projections of their self-interest, and certainly greater than is pro-social.

Could you elaborate on these claims. Neither is obvious to me. Are you suggesting that people should altruistically pursue relationships with people they are not attracted to?

Comment author: steven0461 29 April 2009 07:50:11PM *  3 points [-]

OK, the "certainly" was an overstatement. Probably there are some arguments from evolution you can make about how it's probably installed mechanisms that can work against (at the same time as being valid input to) your rational judgments of future happiness or whatever else you're pursuing. It's my impression that in men visual attraction is more like this than other considerations, but I might be wrong.

Are you suggesting that people should altruistically pursue relationships with people they are not attracted to?

No, that sounds like a terrible idea. Maybe it could tip the balance in close marginal situations; but I was thinking more in terms of altruistically exerting nonzero psychological effort to change what one finds attractive; I agree though that the process is mostly (or wholly?) not under one's conscious control. Probably I should have stuck to self-interest, as it's less minefieldy.

Comment author: mattnewport 29 April 2009 08:36:59PM 2 points [-]

It's my impression that in men visual attraction is more like this than other considerations, but I might be wrong.

It's fairly clear that men already do weigh physical attractiveness against other qualities when judging a mate, and in fact use different weights based on the length and nature of the relationship they are considering entering into. I feel I'd need to see more evidence to back up a claim that they consistently over-weight attractiveness in such a way that it works against their own long term interests before accepting that it is the case though.

I agree though that the process is mostly (or wholly?) not under one's conscious control.

Indeed, 'attraction is not a choice'. I think there might well be scope for some rationally directed self-manipulation to direct attraction towards individuals that you judge to be more suitable than what your natural unguided instincts would guide you towards. I think it would be very interesting to see a movement amongst women to take the lessons learned by the seduction community and use them to redirect their own feelings of attraction towards individuals who they rationally judged to be more desirable partners.