potato comments on Only say 'rational' when you can't eliminate the word - Less Wrong

55 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 31 May 2012 06:56AM

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Comment author: Maelin 31 May 2012 07:36:33AM 12 points [-]

Similarly, you can eliminate the sentence 'rational' from almost any sentence in which it appears. "It's rational to believe the sky is blue", "It's true that the sky is blue", and "The sky is blue", all convey exactly the same information about what color you think the sky is - no more, no less.

I might be missing the point of this paragraph, but it seems to me that "it's rational to believe the sky is blue" and "the sky is blue" do not convey the same information. I can conceive of situations in which it is rational to believe the sky is blue, and yet the sky is not blue. For example, the sky is green, but superintelligent alien pranksters install undetected nanotech devices into my optic and auditory nerves/brain, altering my perceptions and memories so that I see the green sky as blue, and hear (read) the word "blue" where other people have actually said (written) the word "green" when describing the sky.

Under these circumstances, all my evidence would indicate the sky is blue - and so it would be rational to believe that the sky is blue. And yet the sky is not blue. But the first statement doesn't feel like I am generalising over cognitive algorithms in the sense I took from the big paragraph.

Am I missing or misinterpreting something?

Comment author: Oligopsony 31 May 2012 08:00:25AM 10 points [-]

When discussing these third-person as you are now, cognitive algorithms as algorithms are being invoked. But we all know that "p" and "Alice thinks that p" are hardly reducible to each other, it's first-person items like "I believe that p" that are deflationary. So while it is clearly the case that you can imagine situations where the sky is not blue but it would be epistemically rational to believe that it is, that does not demonstrate situations where one could justifiably claim only one of "the sky is blue" and "it is rational to believe that the sky is blue" (indeed the justifiability of the former just is the content of the latter.)

Comment author: potato 11 June 2012 12:31:45AM 1 point [-]

"I believe that 'P'." is only deflationary because it treats belief as if it were binary, but it isn't. "I have 0.8 belief in 'P'." is certainly not the same as "It is true that 'P'." Yes? One is a claim about the world, and one is a claim about my model of the world.