BlazeOrangeDeer comments on Rationality Quotes June 2012 - Less Wrong

4 Post author: OpenThreadGuy 02 June 2012 05:14PM

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Comment author: Oscar_Cunningham 01 June 2012 02:31:58PM *  37 points [-]

Two very different attitudes toward the technical workings of mathematics are found in the literature. Already in 1761, Leonhard Euler complained about isolated results which "are not based on a systematic method" and therefore whose "inner grounds seem to be hidden." Yet in the 20'th Century, writers as diverse in viewpoint as Feller and de Finetti are agreed in considering computation of a result by direct application of the systematic rules of probability theory as dull and unimaginative, and revel in the finding of some isolated clever trick by which one can see the answer to a problem without any calculation.

[...]

Feller's perception was so keen that in virtually every problem he was able to see a clever trick; and then gave only the clever trick. So his readers get the impression that:

  • Probability theory has no systematic methods; it is a collection of isolated, unrelated clever tricks, each of which works on one problem but not on the next one.
  • Feller was possessed of superhuman cleverness.
  • Only a person with such cleverness can hope to find new useful results in probability theory.

Indeed, clever tricks do have an aesthetic quality that we all appreciate at once. But we doubt whether Feller, or anyone else, was able to see those tricks on first looking at the problem. We solve a problem for the first time by that (perhaps dull to some) direct calculation applying our systematic rules. After seeing the solution, we may contemplate it and see a clever trick that would have led us to the answer much more quickly. Then, of course, we have the opportunity for gamesmanship by showing others only the clever trick, scorning to mention the base means by which we first found.

E. T. Jaynes "Probability Theory, The Logic of Science"

Comment author: BlazeOrangeDeer 03 June 2012 03:33:30AM 0 points [-]

Does anyone have a link to an ebook of this book?

Comment author: gwern 03 June 2012 03:36:04AM 4 points [-]

libgen.info has a variety of versions.

Comment author: BlazeOrangeDeer 03 June 2012 03:56:19AM 0 points [-]

Thank you! Looking forward to reading.

Comment author: gwern 03 June 2012 08:10:09PM 2 points [-]

Honestly, I think PT:TLoS is probably best for those who already understand Bayesian statistics to a fair degree (and remember their calculus). I'm currently inching my way through Sivia's 2006 Data Analysis: A Bayesian Tutorial and hoping I'll do better with that than Jaynes.

Comment author: Oscar_Cunningham 06 June 2012 09:51:56AM 5 points [-]

I think PT:TLoS is probably best for those who understand frequentist statistics to a fair degree. He spends a whole load of the book arguing against them, so it helps to know what he's talking about (contrary to his recommendation that knowing no frequentist statistics will help). The Bayesian stuff he builds from the ground up, calculus is all that's needed to follow it.

Comment author: Karmakaiser 05 June 2012 05:20:42PM 3 points [-]

Jaynes begins it with a caution that this is an upper undergrad to graduate level text, not knowing a great deal of probability in the first place, I stopped reading and picked up a more elementary text. What do you think are the core pre-reqs to reading Jaynes?

Comment author: gwern 05 June 2012 06:09:12PM *  4 points [-]

I have no idea - I'll tell you when I manage to satisfy them!

Comment author: khafra 04 June 2012 07:39:17PM 3 points [-]

I'd agree, with the exception that chapters one and five (and maybe other sections) are great for just about anybody to get a qualitative understanding of Jaynes-style bayesian epistemology.

Comment author: gwern 04 June 2012 08:17:54PM 2 points [-]

Ah, yeah - chapter 5 is pretty good. (I recently inserted a long quote from it into my Death Note essay.)