wedrifid comments on Rationality Quotes June 2012 - Less Wrong

4 Post author: OpenThreadGuy 02 June 2012 05:14PM

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Comment author: [deleted] 03 June 2012 12:42:35AM *  9 points [-]

[...] if you make yourself really small you can externalize virtually everything. The imaginative pressure to think of yourself as very small is easy enough to find. When I raise my arm, well what is it? There must be some part of my brain that is sort of sending out the signal and then my arm is obeying me, and then when I think about the reasons why, it’s very natural to suppose that my reason store is over there somewhere, and I asked my reason store to send me some good reasons. So the imagery keeps shrinking back to a singularity; a point, a sort of Cartesian point at the intersection of two lines and that’s where I am. That’s the deadly error, to retreat into the punctate self. You’ve got to make yourself big; really big."

  • Daniel Dennett
Comment author: wedrifid 04 June 2012 11:18:30AM 2 points [-]

You’ve got to make yourself big; really big."

When I read the opening line I guessed he was going to go in the opposite direction - as Paul Graham probably would have.

I can see uses to both ways of simplifying one's relationship with the rest of the universe.

Comment author: Alejandro1 04 June 2012 04:51:58PM *  11 points [-]

Aren't Graham and Dennett talking about different things entirely? Dennett is trying to help us understand better how materialism is compatible with having free will and a conscious self; his prescription here is to avoid a common pitfall, that of dismissing all "upwards" processing of perception and all "downwards" action-starting signals as "mechanical computing, not part of the self" and locating the Cartesian self at the zero-extension intersection of these two processes. It is better to think of the self as extended in both directions. When Graham says "keep your identity small", he is talking about a different sense of "identity" and "small", roughly "do not describe yourself with labels because you might become overly invested in them and lose objectivity and perspective".

Comment author: TheOtherDave 04 June 2012 02:56:58PM 2 points [-]

I now want to make up bumper stickers that read "What Would Paul Graham Do?"

Granted, I want to do other things that preclude doing so even more.

Comment author: shokwave 07 June 2012 07:53:57PM 8 points [-]

I now want to make up bumper stickers that read "What Would Paul Graham Do?"

Wanting to associate your identity with a person, in part because they have a very good argument for why you shouldn't associate your identity with things, and then doing something more important instead... there's something almost poetic or ironic about it.

Comment author: wedrifid 12 June 2012 12:12:32AM 1 point [-]

there's something almost poetic or ironic about it.

Poetic? Nice call.

On the plus side at least it indicates that they aren't so caught up in affiliation that we aren't able to ignore his dogmas when it isn't useful to us.

Comment author: [deleted] 04 June 2012 03:45:11PM 4 points [-]

This is only tangentially related, but:

It's probably really important to notice when you feel a desire to signal affiliation with someone or something by purchasing paraphernalia or, e.g., getting a bumper sticker. Wanting to signal that you like something generally means that your identity has expanded to include that thing. This, of course, can be both a symptom and a cause of bias (although it isn't necessarily so). See also all this stuff. Or, more concisely: "I want to buy a bumper sticker/t-shirt/pinup calendar/whatever" should sound an alarm and prompt some introspection.

(I'm not trying to imply that you have a bias towards Paul Graham, just making a general statement.)

Comment author: TheOtherDave 04 June 2012 03:50:26PM 0 points [-]

Yeah, I agree with (at least the core of) this.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 05 June 2012 03:44:03AM 0 points [-]

Of course, that's why you what to identify with Paul Graham.

Comment author: gwern 04 June 2012 03:23:57PM 2 points [-]

Looking briefly at a few sites specializing in custom bumper stickers, I estimate you could probably make and pay for some in half an hour to an hour. Do you want to do those other things that badly?

Comment author: TheOtherDave 04 June 2012 03:49:11PM 4 points [-]

You know, it's actually a really good question.

I think what's true here, now that I'm considering it for more than five seconds, is that I don't actually want to do this at all, I just think it's a funny idea and wanted to share it, and I chose "I want to X" as a conventional way of framing the idea... a habit I should perhaps replace with "It would be funny to X" in the spirit of not misrepresenting my state to no purpose.

Comment author: gwern 04 June 2012 03:52:12PM 2 points [-]

Yes, I figured as much. :)

Comment author: [deleted] 04 June 2012 12:31:03PM 0 points [-]

How would Paul Graham approach it?

Comment author: [deleted] 04 June 2012 02:39:30PM 1 point [-]