Vladimir_Nesov comments on Natural Laws Are Descriptions, not Rules - Less Wrong

32 Post author: pragmatist 08 August 2012 04:27AM

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Comment author: Tyrrell_McAllister 10 August 2012 11:18:20PM 5 points [-]

Of course, the physical world is very special, it is this particular thing with these particular properties, and we happen to have evolved and live in it, but that doesn't seem fundamentally different from how the complex plane is another particular thing with its own properties. Also, like "physical" is not a meaningful distinction in the sense that it doesn't say anything specific about properties of the world, also "mathematical structure" is not a meaningful distinction in the same sense, and so insisting that the physical world "is a mathematical structure" doesn't seem meaningful.

Every existing thing has a structure, but it is not clear that every logically consistent structure is the structure of an existing thing. The distinction between instantiated and uninstantiated mathematical structures is not obviously meaningless. The Tegmark hypothesis is that this distinction is meaningless. Since this meaninglessness is not obvious, the Tegmark hypothesis is nontrivial.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 11 August 2012 12:51:29AM *  2 points [-]

The distinction between instantiated and uninstantiated mathematical structures is not obviously meaningless. The Tegmark hypothesis is that this distinction is meaningless. Since this meaninglessness is not obvious, the Tegmark hypothesis is nontrivial.

I'm making a distinction between saying "physical world is a structure" and "physical world has structure": the first form seems to demand something unclear, and the latter seems to suffice for all purposes. Suppose things may either exist or not; but structure of things is abstract math, so it does seem clear that the properties of a structure don't care whether it's "instantiated" or not: the math works out according to what the structure is, regardless of which things have it. And since we only reason about things in terms of their structure, a distinction that isn't reflected in that structure can't enter into our reasoning about them.

(It might be possible to cash out "existence" of the kind physical world has as a certain property of structures, probably something very non-fundamental, like human morality, but this interpretation seems unlike the kind of confusion the argument is meant to counter.)