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Will_Newsome comments on The Power of Reinforcement - Less Wrong
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Comments (467)
Eagerly awaiting "The Power of Punishment".
Anecdotally, punishment seems to be a good guilt-releaser, while guilt is dysthymic. Punishment may be effective at snapping someone out of a blue funk and getting them to be responsive to rewards. Guilty people reject rewards. (The above may work better if you are kinked that way.)
I'm curious about the anecdotes. I feel like I'm reading travellers' tales of the weird customs of a distant tribe.
How about I direct you to this blog for a gentle introduction?
It's guessable from context, but an NSFW tag would probably be good here.
Ah, that sort of thing. Ok, not so Martian after all.
Now you've made me curious what you thought it was.
Although to clarify, I meant that as generally as I said it. It applies in kink, and it applies out of kink. Kink just has the most readily accessible anecdotes.
I just found it opaque. The context you linked had not occurred to me. Still is, to some extent, despite having cough some slight familiarity with such things, but people's experiences and conceptualisations vary enormously.
What about self punishment?
Every time you do it, you condition yourself against doing it.
If and only if it's negatively self reinforcing. Which it might not be, if it's serving some purpose.
-- http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinfo/problems/depression/self-harm.aspx
Particularly good for demonstrating to observers that you have more status and power than the person you are punishing.
meh. downvoted.
(just joking)
(demonstrating to observers / demonstrating to self / demonstrating to punished; status / power / resources / justification / need / etc; person / cognitive subsystem / institution / problem representation / etc)
I'm curious -- where did your other post (a few paragraphs) go? I didn't think that people could permanently delete posts, only retract them, and I thought that a star appeared if you edited your post.
Here's a fixed, less passive-agressive version of the deleted comment:
This article implicitly reinforces reinforcement and punishes punishment. But there are situations in which punishment should be reinforced, e.g. if this article is in fact correct to punish punishment. I hope someday someone writes out a list of ways to efficiently torture oneself into having at least some hope of ultimately not being seen as obviously stupid in retrospect, to complement this article and perhaps adjust for any optimistic-biased selection that might have generated it.
You get the option to delete if you retract and no one's commented. Which is perhaps not good, because I made a rather embarrassing terminological error in that comment that I probably deserve to be punished for.
You are aware that you can edit your posts? Such as fixing terminological errors.
Upon a few minutes of reflection, I've decided that it wouldn't technically be logically impossible for me to not be aware that I can edit my posts. At first I thought that any person who can contribute to LessWrong for two years without realizing that they can edit their posts simply couldn't be me in any possible world. But it's true that weirdly specific brain damage or supernatural influence could in fact make it happen while leaving my identity intact. I have a stricter sense of logical possibility than most, but I guess I'll cordon off that debate for some other time.
Um anyway yeah I'm aware.
Then why didn't you fix the error rather than delete the post?
It was a bad post overall. Also the terminological error was rather embarrassing so I wanted to erase it as quickly as possible.
Gotcha -- thanks.
But for some reason I can still see where the comment used to be, now with a "comment deleted" indicator, and it says it has one child, but it doesn't. Perhaps a synchronization error.
I had replied to point out the terminological error. You must have deleted after I started the comment but before I submitted. I then notice your comment was deleted, so I deleted my response. (It might be a good idea to not allow a response to be submitted after the parent is deleted.)