EphemeralNight comments on The Power of Reinforcement - Less Wrong

96 Post author: lukeprog 21 June 2012 01:42PM

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Comment author: EphemeralNight 21 June 2012 09:43:29PM 4 points [-]

The reason you should ignore poor performance if you say "No, you're doing it wrong!" you are inadvertently punishing the effort. A better response to a mistake would be to reinforce the effort: "Good effort! You're almost there! Try once more.

I am probably unusual in this regard, but I think I would find both approaches equally aggravating. If someone points out that I've made a mistake, anything other than a concise detailing of exactly how what I did differs from what I was supposed to do, is just going to irritate me. Also, my brain tends to interpret being ignored as a signal that I'm doing correctly.

Comment author: Swimmer963 21 June 2012 09:56:04PM 2 points [-]

If someone points out that I've made a mistake, anything other than a concise detailing of exactly how what I did differs from what I was supposed to do, is just going to irritate me.

Is this because of the "damn it, I know I made a mistake, you telling me I did doesn't help!" effect? I get that too... A good thought experiment is that if I was making a type of mistake that I couldn't automatically tell I was making on my own, I would prefer it to be pointed out, even if not in a concise detailed fashion–the idea of not knowing that I'm making a mistake is kind of scary. What would your reaction be in that situation?

Comment author: EphemeralNight 21 June 2012 10:23:58PM *  2 points [-]

Is this because of the "damn it, I know I made a mistake, you telling me I did doesn't help!" effect?

No, I react the same way whether I was previously aware of my mistake or not. I only experience that effect when I'm told to do something I am already doing.

A good thought experiment is that if I was making a type of mistake that I couldn't automatically tell I was making on my own, I would prefer it to be pointed out, even if not in a concise detailed fashion–the idea of not knowing that I'm making a mistake is kind of scary. What would your reaction be in that situation?

Pragmatically, we as humans, just barely over the threshold into sapient intelligence, make mistakes we're not aware of constantly. If we didn't, we wouldn't need a superintelligence to fix the world; we'd have already done it ourselves. So finding the concept scary seems kind of pointless.(Sort of like being hydrophobic about the water in one's own body.) However, I would, of course, rather be aware of my mistakes than not.

But none of this is really on the topic, which was that the listed reinforcements don't seem even remotely applicable to humans in a universal way.

Comment author: Swimmer963 22 June 2012 02:16:26AM 2 points [-]

So finding the concept scary seems kind of pointless. However, I would, of course, rather be aware of my mistakes than not.

My actions have impacts on others. In general, I prefer to help other people or at least not harm them–however, I may harm someone by mistake, and I really don't want this to happen. If I make a mistake once and I realize it–fine, hopefully no harm done, I won't do it again. If I make a mistake and I don't know about it, well, maybe no harm done that time in particular, but I'm likely to keep making this mistake over and over, and possibly the first time I'll find out is when there is harm done. I think that justifies finding it scary.

Comment author: pnrjulius 05 July 2012 01:28:59AM -1 points [-]

I've always found that recommendations of what to do are much more useful than any kind of praise, reward, punishment, or criticism.

On the other hand, if everyone told you how to do everything, you might never learn the very important skill of teaching yourself to do things.