Bill_McGrath comments on Brainstorming help request: teaching rationality basics in an RPG setting - Less Wrong

7 Post author: MarkusRamikin 14 June 2012 07:05PM

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Comment author: Bill_McGrath 18 June 2012 09:29:01AM 2 points [-]

Evidence for the Pattern: Balefire

This is the first thing that occurred to me as well, but would the characters know about it? Or does this game require a significant barrier between player knowledge and character knowledge?

Comment author: MarkusRamikin 18 June 2012 09:47:45AM *  1 point [-]

We're talking about an in-character class, so even though I'll be talking to fellow channelers I don't think any of us is aware of balefire.

On the other hand, Ogier lore on the Pattern, including how some of them can sense ta'veren, might be valid IC knowledge for me.

Comment author: wedrifid 18 June 2012 02:01:40PM 0 points [-]

We're talking about an in-character class, so even though I'll be talking to fellow channelers I don't think any of us is aware of balefire.

We weren't supposed to know about Balefire? Oops.

Comment author: MarkusRamikin 18 June 2012 02:11:15PM 0 points [-]

Come to think of it, I suppose my Sedai would know, but you're hardly supposed to be telling Novices about it.

Comment author: wedrifid 18 June 2012 02:50:41PM *  0 points [-]

Come to think of it, I suppose my Sedai would know, but you're hardly supposed to be telling Novices about it.

That's good. Wedrifid would have known too - given that he was curious, Cate Sedai was a specialist in arcane research and both were rather direct about seeking out and exploiting any novel sources of potential power.

Comment author: MarkusRamikin 18 June 2012 02:58:06PM 0 points [-]

seeking out and exploiting any novel sources of potential power.

Oh, such as?

Comment author: wedrifid 18 June 2012 03:42:28PM 1 point [-]

Oh, such as?

  • Every tactic for farming SMOBs, as soon as they came out.
  • Automatic Ways navigation
  • optimisation of all forms of intercontinental travel.
  • Harnessing various previously unidentified features of the magical universe (ie. Bugs) for fun and profit. ie. I probably still have 10 characters with maxed out bank accounts and full stockpiles of weaponry.
  • Quite possibly the best scripting/mapping/targetting/automation code ever used by MUD players. The ability to write advanced regex was probably even more of a bonus to Wedrifid than Warder multibash, attack, heal and health and stamina regeneration.
  • Killing just about every possible MOB target in the MUD, simply because they were reported to be hard or impossible. Extra fun if this required using usually useless spells specifically to target a weakness and if, after a month or two of exploitation they had to remove the shocklance or jewelled wristcuff load because we were flooding the economy with top end items.
  • When they were younger, automatic purchasing of all key economic items the moment the MUD came up. What were they again? The gold breastplate and occasional gold greaves, a large steel spear, an ivory necklace, all the flatwort tea and the yellow vials.
  • We aimed to have Justice at least every second time. Because Warder spawn sense isn't nearly as cool as having your light saber light up every time they come within three zones. (We also used that to figure out rather a lot of darkfriends within the Tower. We kept the identities to ourselves unless we found non Justice proof but it is kind of useful to know when to just leave a fight.)
Comment author: MarkusRamikin 18 June 2012 06:44:22PM *  0 points [-]

Harnessing various previously unidentified features of the magical universe (ie. Bugs) for fun and profit

And here I naively thought that the thing to do with bugs is to report them so they get fixed...

We aimed to have Justice at least every second time.

Hah, bet you were well loved for it. I remember when I had Justice for about a year and a half (with some breaks). Fun.

Would still be doing it probably except Justice is currently bugged and not loading, ever since a game crash literally 1 second before I was going to pick it up. (The most you've-gotta-be-kidding me MUD moment ever, for me.)

Comment author: wedrifid 18 June 2012 07:18:16PM *  0 points [-]

And here I naively thought that the thing to do with bugs is to report them so they get fixed...

Sure, when they annoy me. Even fixed a few myself once I got my somewhat short lived coder Immortal. :)

Hah, bet you were well loved for it.

Used to have people scream in outrage when I took it on trips to Seanchan. For some reason north PKers thought I was obliged to go to the blight and die to a gank of 10, not play hide and seek down south.

Comment author: MarkusRamikin 18 June 2012 07:19:48PM *  0 points [-]

Why was it short lived?

Used to have people scream in outrage when I took it on trips to Seanchan. For some reason north PKers thought I was obliged to go die to them, not play hide and seek down south.

Haha, so it was you. I remember people were complaining about some guy doing that. I never quite stored the name because nothing that happens south or west of Lugard registers in my brain.

Yeah, I got hated on just for using it extensively.

Comment author: gwern 18 June 2012 03:58:09PM 0 points [-]

Well, IIRC, balefire is well-documented in the old lore and may be forbidden; I more vaguely recall Moiraine stealing a ter'angreal which specialized in producing balefire, and since she didn't spend her life playing with random ter'angreal, someone else must have known of its function or it was listed in storeroom catalogues. If balefire is discussed in the old books, forbidden by Tower law, and a ter'angreal is documented as producing balefire, it's hard to see how any Aes Sedai could doubt balefire's existence.

Comment author: Bill_McGrath 21 June 2012 05:01:20PM 1 point [-]

That makes sense, though I had vague memories of the existence of balefire being suppressed.

Comment author: MarkusRamikin 18 June 2012 06:08:05PM 0 points [-]

Hm, Moiraine learned how to actually weave it herself. The ter'angreal thing was someone else. Not that it matters.

What matters is that class will be taught to Accepteds and Novices, so discussing something Moiraine describes thus...

'Something forbidden,' Moiraine said coolly. 'Forbidden by vows almost as strong as the Three Oaths.' She took Aldieb’s reins from the girl, and patted the mare’s neck, calming her. 'Something not used in nearly two thousand years. Something I might be stilled just for knowing.'

... is out.

Comment author: Desrtopa 19 June 2012 05:42:31AM 1 point [-]

My understanding is that it's forbidden to use or even know how to weave balefire, but not to know it exists or what it does. Knowledge of its existence moves around among Aes Sedai quite a lot without comment throughout the series.

Letting Novices and Accepted even know it exists is probably bad conduct, if not forbidden though, lest someone lacking sufficient discipline be tempted and try to learn to use it.