CronoDAS comments on Practical Advice Backed By Deep Theories - Less Wrong

42 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 25 April 2009 06:52PM

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Comment author: pjeby 26 April 2009 06:43:03PM 3 points [-]

And here we are, the LessWrong crowd, all for the image, none for the substance, bad for efficiency.

I wouldn't say that of everybody on LessWrong, but there is certainly a vocal contingent of that stripe. That contingent unfortunately also suffers from the use of cognitive models that, to me, are as primitive as the medieval four-humors model.

So when they push my "ignorance and superstition" buttons in the same posts where they're demanding properly validated rituals and papers for things they could verify for themselves in ten minutes by simple self-experimentation, it's rather difficult to take them seriously as "rationalists". (Especially when they go on to condemn theists for suffering from the same delusions as they are, just externally directed.)

I totally don't mind engaging with people who want to learn something and are willing to actually look at experience, instead of just talking about it and telling themselves they already know what works or what is likely to work, without actually trying it. The other people, I can't do a damn thing for.

If your interest is in "science", I can't help you. I'm not a scientist, and I'm not trying to increase the body of knowledge of science. Science is a movement; I'm interested in individuals. And individual rationalists ought to be able to figure things out for themselves, without needing the stamp of authority.

I also have no interest in being an authority -- the only authority that counts in any field is your own results.

Comment author: CronoDAS 26 April 2009 07:07:17PM *  9 points [-]

I totally don't mind engaging with people who want to learn something and are willing to actually look at experience, instead of just talking about it and telling themselves they already know what works or what is likely to work, without actually trying it. The other people, I can't do a damn thing for.

If your interest is in "science", I can't help you. I'm not a scientist, and I'm not trying to increase the body of knowledge of science. Science is a movement; I'm interested in individuals. And individual rationalists ought to be able to figure things out for themselves, without needing the stamp of authority.

I also have no interest in being an authority -- the only authority that counts in any field is your own results.

The plural of anecdote is not data. Many people will tell you how they were cured by faith healers or other quacks, and, indeed, they had problems that went away after being "treated" by the quack. Does that make the quacks effective or give credibility to their theories about the human body?

The same applies to methods of affecting the human brain. As a non-expert, from the outside I can't tell the difference between NLP, Freudian psychotherapy, and whatever hocus-pocus Scientology says helps people. All have elaborate theories to explain their alleged benefits, and all have had people who swear it works.

To quote Wikipedia:

Because of the absence of any firm empirical evidence supporting its sometimes extravagant claims, NLP has enjoyed little or no support from the scientific community. It continues to make no impact on mainstream academic psychology, and only limited impact on mainstream psychotherapy and counselling.[12] However, it has some influence among private psychotherapists, including hypnotherapists, to the extent that they claim to be trained in NLP and ‘use NLP’ in their work. It has also had an enormous influence in management training, life coaching, and the self-help industry[13].

Until I do see some acceptance among the academic community, I remain unconvinced that NLP is anything more than a self-reinforcing collection of hypotheses, speculation, and metaphors. It could very well be otherwise, but I can't know that it isn't!