Eugine_Nier comments on Thwarting a Catholic conversion? - Less Wrong

8 Post author: Jay_Schweikert 18 June 2012 04:26PM

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Comment author: Jay_Schweikert 19 June 2012 01:27:20AM 0 points [-]

Well, the particular example I'm thinking of is when she invited a Catholic friend as a guest blogger to discuss what he considered to be the strongest arguments against same-sex marriage. He ended up arguing that not only same-sex marriage, but the normalization and even existence of same-sex attraction itself needs to be combated so as to prevent the possibility that romantic attraction would complicate same-sex friendships. Homosexuals shouldn't publicly express their desires, as this results in "sexualizing" public spaces. Strong suggestions that the state should participate in the enforcement of such non-expression.

If you want to say this "isn't bigotry," or that I'm being too loose with the concept, that's fine. I have no strong attachment to some particular understanding of the term. My substantive point was that these views struck me as so outlandish that to host a whole debate about them and repeatedly defend the author as honest and well-intentioned seemed surprising.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 20 June 2012 02:34:27AM *  5 points [-]

My substantive point was that these views struck me as so outlandish

More outlandish than monkeys changing into humans?

that to host a whole debate about them and repeatedly defend the author as honest and well-intentioned seemed surprising.

Being honest and well-intentioned is a property of the arguments the author uses, not whether you like the conclusion.

Comment author: Jayson_Virissimo 20 June 2012 03:46:10AM *  4 points [-]

Being honest and well-intentioned is a property of the arguments the author uses, not whether you like the conclusion.

I disagree. I think "being honest and well-intentioned" is a property of the person advancing the argument (and reducible, in principle, to brain states), not a property of the argument itself (that is to say, a particular set of propositions). People can produce deeply flawed (invalid or inductively weak) arguments while actually trying to produce the opposite (or at least, it feels like I can).

More outlandish than monkeys changing into humans?

You are right, what is or is not "outlandish" depends heavily on large amounts of assumed background information. For instance, depending on the time period, it would be extremely "outlandish" to claim that disease is caused by "invisible animals", but moderns seem to be quite comfortable with the idea.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 21 June 2012 03:08:51AM 3 points [-]

I disagree. I think "being honest and well-intentioned" is a property of the person advancing the argument (and reducible, in principle, to brain states), not a property of the argument itself (that is to say, a particular set of propositions). People can produce deeply flawed (invalid or inductively weak) arguments while actually trying to produce the opposite (or at least, it feels like I can).

Good point.