Will_Newsome comments on Rationality Quotes July 2012 - Less Wrong

3 Post author: RobertLumley 04 July 2012 12:29AM

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Comment author: Will_Newsome 03 July 2012 05:24:54AM *  26 points [-]

Here is a hand. How do I know? Look closely, asshole, it's clearly a hand.

Look, if you really insist on doubting that here is a hand, or anything else, there's nothing really I can say to convince you otherwise. What the tits would the world even look like if this weren't a hand? What sort of system is your doubt endorsing? After all, you can't just say "It's not true that here is a hand." You have to be endorsing some other picture of the world. [...]

So it turns out when I say things like "Here is a hand" I'm not really making a claim about the world, I'm laying down some rules for discussion. If you doubt there's a hand here, then fuck you and that's all there is to it. We can't really talk about anything now, because we can't even agree on something as simple as a goddamn hand. When we all agree here is a hand, then we can go about discussing our world in meaningful ways. Skepticism just undermines a foundation and replaces it with nothing; it[']s paralyzing. The grounds for such radical skepticism don't exist; it presupposes and relies on the very certainty it tries to undermine.

This is more practical than you realize. There are people who actually believe that the world is only 6,000 years old. What the fuck, right? But if you've ever talked with one of them, you know that they're fucking impossible to have what you consider a 'reasonable' discussion with. It's not like they don't have answers for everything, it[']s just that those answers don't make any fucking sense to you. It[']s the sort of gibberish that makes you want to scream. The problem is that you don't even play the game by the same goddamn rules. You're both certain of your positions, because those positions are logically derived from the worldview each of you endorses as your starting point, and you both look at each other's foundations and say, "Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about?" You don't even know how you would go about convincing them that you're right and they're wrong; you don't even agree on a method by which to do that.

If you flew to some part of the world where they'd never heard of an airplane or even a bird, how the fuck could you convince them you flew? They don't even know what that means. They would have all sorts of questions, and would consider your answers nonsensical or magical. When a non-believer is told that God exists, he reacts in the same way; also, a believer when he is told there is no God.

So everything we believe about the world is built on some sort of foundation. Sure, that foundation can change, but there is always something there at the base, and it is that base that enables us to talk about the world. Not everyone has the same base you do, and that has to be okay. Just know that some of your beliefs are just as unsupported as everyone else's. It's just the way it is, bro.

Philosophy Bro summarizing Wittgenstein's "On Certainty". (I'm not sure the summary is very true to the original but it's interesting nonetheless.)

Comment author: [deleted] 03 July 2012 05:37:25AM 3 points [-]

It's a reasonably accurate translation of the spirit of the original into colorful English.

Comment author: thomblake 09 July 2012 06:56:27PM 0 points [-]

I concur.

Comment author: MixedNuts 04 July 2012 01:23:01AM 13 points [-]

If you doubt there is a hand, I'll use it to smush a banana on your face. If you end up looking ridiculous with banana on your face, then there was in fact a hand and my foundation is better than yours. If I end up looking ridiculous trying to grab a banana of doubtful existence with no hands, I promise to admit your foundation is better than mine. If we disagree on what happens, why am I even aware of your existence?

Comment author: roystgnr 09 July 2012 07:06:20PM 5 points [-]

In grade school, I recall there being more than one occasion when I slapped a friend in the back of the head for such instructional purposes when he became too solipsistic. (this wouldn't disprove solipsism, of course, but it would imply a "masochistic solipsism", and it turned out he strongly preferred realism over that)

In hindsight I wonder why he remained such a steadfast friend, and now I wonder whether, if I had ever had a banana handy, that would have been the last straw.

Comment author: duckduckMOO 09 July 2012 05:43:43PM 2 points [-]

People who are experiencing scepticism should have bananas smushed in their faces, is what you're saying? And apparently that's worth 12 upvotes.

Comment author: MixedNuts 09 July 2012 09:01:31PM *  0 points [-]

I've got a worse one: people who are experiencing skepticism should have their children taken away, forcibly stabbed with a syringe needle, injected with chemicals chosen by the government, and returned only if they will allow an institution they hate to keep stuffing their kids with chemicals.

Edit: Wait, that is controversial? Huh. Is LW unusually opposed to mandatory vaccination or am I wrong about the mainstream?

Comment author: Alicorn 09 July 2012 09:41:29PM 1 point [-]

...where did that come from?

Comment author: MixedNuts 09 July 2012 09:56:18PM 0 points [-]
Comment author: Bugmaster 11 July 2012 11:15:24PM 0 points [-]

Certain methods for obtaining beliefs are better than others, though. It turns out that one method gives you a ~4.5 billion year old Earth, but also cellphones, computer networks, plentiful food, eradication of many diseases, spaceflight, lolcats, and so on an so forth. The other method gives you an Earth that's as old as you want it to be, and good feelings, and... what else ?

One of the many problems with solipsism is that it lacks an application.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 12 July 2012 03:32:07AM 0 points [-]

cellphones, computer networks, plentiful food, eradication of many diseases, spaceflight, lolcats

I deny that those things exist. ;)

Comment author: Bugmaster 13 July 2012 09:07:34PM -1 points [-]

"What are you speaking to me on? What...what's that in your hand?"

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/466217-grand-theft-auto-iii/faqs/16584