Douglas_Knight comments on [Link] Machiavelli in historical context - Less Wrong

6 Post author: Cyan 31 July 2012 07:41PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (17)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: Cyan 31 July 2012 10:52:53PM 1 point [-]

And then you took a passage and labeled it the origin of consequentialism. Why did you distinguish that passage from the other?

It's actually the passage immediately following the one I quoted which exemplifies consequentialism, in sharp contrast to the classically influenced, religiously founded deontology that public figures in Europe claimed to espouse if they wanted to avoid the wrath of the Church.

Machiavelli is an educated man. He has read all the ancients, all the histories, all the moral maxims and manuals of government. He negotiates... He negotiates anything he has to.

Comment author: Douglas_Knight 01 August 2012 12:03:41AM 0 points [-]

If he is making public that which everyone is thinking, but afraid to say, then his historical importance is not in any of the passages you quote, but that he writes a book about it.

Comment author: Cyan 01 August 2012 12:30:31AM *  0 points [-]

Yup. From the OP:

In writing Il Principe, Machiavelli committed to posterity two major breakthroughs [emphasis added]

Comment author: gwern 01 August 2012 01:19:30AM *  2 points [-]

One of the claims Dietz makes is that Machiavelli made no attempt at all to publicize The Prince; he wrote & delivered it to the respective palace, and that was it.

Comment author: Douglas_Knight 01 August 2012 01:39:33AM *  0 points [-]

So what if he meant to do it gently in the Discourses on Livy rather than brazenly in the Prince?


Added: note that the Discourses were also banned. Subtracted: actually, that might have been a blanket ban, providing no evidence.

Comment author: Cyan 01 August 2012 01:37:06AM *  0 points [-]

It seems entirely plausible to me that it was written with no other goal than gaining patronage. I'll update the post.