GabrielDuquette comments on Roommate interest and coordination thread - Less Wrong

9 Post author: patrickscottshields 02 August 2012 09:22AM

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Comment author: [deleted] 02 August 2012 09:48:42PM *  12 points [-]

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Comment author: David_Gerard 02 August 2012 11:18:57PM 3 points [-]

I did this because I wanted to build internal motivation.

I didn't understand this bit. What do you mean?

Comment author: [deleted] 03 August 2012 08:32:54PM *  6 points [-]

I was massively inspired by this essay, specifically:

The most fundamental freedom is the freedom to do nothing. But when you get this freedom, after many years of activities that were forced, nothing is all you want to do. You might start projects that seem like the kind of thing you're supposed to love doing, music or writing or art, and not finish because nobody is forcing you to finish and it's not really what you want to do. It could take months, if you're lucky, or more likely years, before you can build up the life inside you to an intensity where it can drive projects that you actually enjoy and finish, and then it will take more time before you build up enough skill that other people recognize your actions as valuable.

It sort of reminds me of how succession works in forests -- the operative part of concept being incredibly vast amounts of time.

Basically, I bought into a folk wisdom about motivation that is very, very difficult to falsify. One thing I've learned for sure: being alone most of the time may have been important in the beginning, but now it's only a liability.

Comment author: David_Gerard 03 August 2012 10:28:59PM 8 points [-]

Well, I can empathise. I spent 1993 sitting on my extremely nice front porch drinking coffee, smoking Lucky Strikes and reading all the newspapers with my burnt-out ex-Communist housemate, and achieving 0. It was the right thing at the right time. I think.

Comment author: [deleted] 04 August 2012 05:19:43AM 4 points [-]

How old were you? What brought you to the porch? What roused you from the porch?

Comment author: David_Gerard 04 August 2012 07:16:34AM 5 points [-]

26, had suffered recent horrible experience of working an actual day job, burnt out from doing an indie rock fanzine for several years. We didn't have Internet then so I had to actually go see my friends or them come visit me. I got a job at the end of that year and then moved from Perth (which is like said porch the size of a city) to Melbourne.

Comment author: jooyous 29 January 2013 06:03:30AM 1 point [-]

Dude, you know what? That used to work for me! Back when ... it worked for me. I don't think all akrasias are made of the same stuff because that definitely works for some types of them. I just think you don't know in advance which one and you only realize it's not working after a wasted few months.

Comment author: shminux 03 August 2012 10:43:30PM 1 point [-]

after many years of activities that were forced, nothing is all you want to do

Cool, now I have something to blame my post-PhD akrasia on.

Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 05 August 2012 03:25:38AM *  4 points [-]

Try planning tomorrow out in advance every evening, and iteratively discover what works?

All my motivational breakthroughs came when I stopped trying to figure out what I "really wanted to do", ala Paul Graham's How to Do What You Love, and started setting and accomplishing goals because I wanted to goals accomplished for their own sake (as opposed to because I thought the act of working towards the goals themselves would be intrinsically fulfilling).

Comment author: Kevin 04 August 2012 04:29:35AM 7 points [-]

Well, if you make it out to Berkeley, you're welcome to be the drummer in my hypothetical rationalist rock band. I've been procrastinating about putting it together for a long time, but we have enough talented instrumentalists and vocalists together to make a great band.

(I play drums too, but realistically actually prefer playing percussion to drum sets, and I always like rock bands with drums + aux percussion...)

Comment author: [deleted] 04 August 2012 05:21:56AM *  1 point [-]

Thanks! Originals? Covers? Can I crash on the couch in your mansion for months and months while we "work on music?"

Comment author: Kevin 04 August 2012 05:37:58AM 1 point [-]

Well, we (where we means I) don't really have any music written and lots of counterfactual disputes about whether we want to optimize for popular appeal or not. The kind of music that I would actually want to write if I was capable of writing it myself, is somewhere between Alcest and Zomby. I'm sure by virtue of collaboration it will end up sounding nothing like that.

Comment author: [deleted] 04 August 2012 06:01:52AM 1 point [-]

We like very, very different things. But that isn't necessarily a problem! Anyway, I don't know what I'm doing or where I'm living, so it's moot.

Comment author: Alicorn 04 August 2012 06:58:05AM 0 points [-]

Alcest reminds me of Leaves' Eyes.

Comment author: Alicorn 04 August 2012 05:01:27AM *  1 point [-]

my hypothetical rationalist rock band

Who else would be in it?

Comment author: jsalvatier 03 August 2012 06:18:34PM 4 points [-]

<hug>

Keep in mind that people are strongly affected by the people they hang out with.

Comment author: [deleted] 03 August 2012 08:37:34PM 2 points [-]

Thanks. Yeah, I'm keeping that in mind. I just feel like I'm a weird limbo because I don't fit with the artsy folks or the sciencey folks.

Comment author: patrickscottshields 02 August 2012 11:14:17PM 2 points [-]

Thanks for sharing. What's your plan? How much of your time do you think it would be optimal to spend assessing your options with regard to where to live?

I love the idea of living with "agent-y" rationalists, but I definitely don't love the idea of slowly discovering that I'm intractably not motivated or smart enough to truly "hang."

My impression is that the majority of aspiring rationalists are willing to work with each other through our flaws, rather than expecting perfection. I suspect the smartest, most popular people in the rationality community take up a disproportionate amount of our attention, which can make inadequacy feel more plausible than it really is. If we try, I don't think we'll have trouble finding awesome living environments.

Comment author: [deleted] 03 August 2012 08:18:06PM *  5 points [-]

Anytime! I'm happy to share my bewilderment. As of now I do not have a plan apart from waiting until inaction becomes so painful that I act out of sheer desperation. But, because this is LW, I suppose I'll try some empiricism.

I think it's reasonable to assume that I could combine distance teaching via Skype with in-person lessons for a minimum of 5 students/week at $40/lesson. It's also safe to assume that my current part-time bussing gig, which nets me about $700/month, is transferable. So that's a safe-ish bet of ~$1500/month to work with. What will my cost of living be?

The locations I’m considering are NYC, Berkeley, and Northampton, MA.

Monthly expenses, mostly irrespective of location:

  • Food: At least $40/week for groceries, plus another solid $30 for meals out. It’s likely I won’t spend that much, but I might as well plan for it. I've tried my entire adult life to restrict my restaurant habit. Doesn’t work unless it’s harder for me to physically get to restaurants than it is to go to grocery store and make food at home.

  • Cellphone: I don't really want one, but my friends will get annoyed if I go without. Let's say ~$50 for a minimal plan. I may be able to get this down further if I get on somebody's "family" plan.

  • Transportation: I prefer to bike or walk most places, but in NYC busyness and inclement weather often get in the way, so subtract at least another $50 (if I live elsewhere, this subtraction covers sundries).

  • Stuff: At least $100. The price of socializing, etc. In NYC this is a lowball figure. I’m guessing that’s true of the Bay as well.

  • Utilities: I’m honestly not sure. I’ll say $50 and let the stuff/sundries cushion cover any extra.

So that’s a rounded-up maximum of $550/month in non-rent expenses. What are expected rents?

  • NYC: $650 if I watch Craigslist like a hawk.

  • Berkeley: So far, the rationalist group homes I’ve read about have been throwing around figures of $700-800. I’d shoot for the low end.

  • Northampton: $550 will likely net me a place close to the center of town.

So I’m looking at monthly living expenses of $1200 in NYC, $1250 in Berkeley, and $1100 in Northampton. Which means I realistically only accrue savings if I live in Northampton or get a different job or more students. At the moment, Noho is the top contender, but let’s look at some other concerns.

Will I be able to practice and teach drums in my living space?

  • NYC: I probably have an “in” at my ex-band’s rehearsal space in WIlliamsburg. I’m pretty bad at operating in far mode, though -- historically, having to trek across town has killed my desire to practice. Teaching on a practice pad will probably be acceptable in a ground floor apartment, but basement access, etc, is less likely.

  • Berkeley: A houseful of rationalists would work with me to help me achieve my aims. And if we’re picking the house as a group, then my need for drumming/teaching space will be accounted for.

  • Northampton: A laid-back, artsy culture means that in-home drumming is probably ok, but passive-aggressive griping may follow. I can work around it.

Is daily life stressful? I don't thrive on stress, like, at all.

  • NYC: Legendarily. Noise, bad smells, zero solitude, a half hour train ride to grass and trees.

  • Berkeley: I’ve only visited -- many years ago -- but aside from scrambling to make ends meet, daily life seems pretty chill. Famous for forgiving weather.

  • Northampton: Unstressful to the point of stagnation. Lots of green space and quiet.

NYC is falling behind, leaving the contest to Berk and Noho. But that’s just the Stark Realities round. Dark horses can surprise you in the What The Fuck Am I Doing With My Life round. Coming soon!

Comment author: [deleted] 04 August 2012 07:45:46PM *  0 points [-]

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Comment author: gwillen 04 August 2012 04:43:50PM 5 points [-]

So I’m looking at monthly living expenses of $1200 in NYC, $1250 in Berkeley, and $1100 in Northampton. Which means I realistically only accrue savings if I live in Northampton or get a different job or more students.

My experience with budgeting my life suggests that your margin of calculational error will swamp the given differences.

Comment author: [deleted] 04 August 2012 05:07:53PM 3 points [-]

That may be true for NYC and Berkeley, but in the case of Northampton I'm already discovering that I'll have more money than I previously thought.

Comment author: patrickscottshields 04 August 2012 03:07:53AM 3 points [-]

I enjoyed reading your analysis. If there's anything in particular you want input on, I'd be happy to share my perspective.

Comment author: [deleted] 04 August 2012 09:09:07PM *  0 points [-]

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Comment author: KnaveOfAllTrades 17 August 2013 08:57:01PM *  0 points [-]

My curiosity requests an update on outcome/progression of your considerations in this comment and its children. :)

Comment author: [deleted] 20 August 2013 11:49:08PM 0 points [-]

I still have my health, more or less? Ask me again in five years.