michaelsullivan comments on Bad reasons for a rationalist to lose - Less Wrong

30 Post author: matt 18 May 2009 10:57PM

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Comment author: michaelsullivan 19 May 2009 10:36:56PM 2 points [-]

On your reaction to "a way to reject the placebo effect", it's important to distinguish what we are trying to do. If all I care about is fixing a given problem for myself, I don't care whether I solve it by placebo effect or by a repeatable hack.

If I care about figuring out how my brain works, then I will need a way to reject or identify the placebo effect.

Comment author: billswift 20 May 2009 12:37:39AM 2 points [-]

You also need to avoid placebo effects if you want the hack to be repeatable (if you run into a similar problem again), generalizable (to work on a wider class of problems), or reliable.

Comment author: pjeby 20 May 2009 12:39:33AM 0 points [-]

If all I care about is fixing a given problem for myself, I don't care whether I solve it by placebo effect or by a repeatable hack.

Actually, it is important to separate certain kinds of placebo effects. The reason I use somatic marker testing in my work is to replace vague "I think I feel better"'s with "Ah! I'm responding differently to that stimulus now"'s.

Technically, "I think I feel better" isn't really a placebo effect; it's just vagueness and confusion. The "real" placebo effect is just acting as if a certain premise were true (e.g. "this pill will make me better").

In that sense, affirmations, LoA, and hypnosis are explicit applications of the same principle, in that they attempt to set up the relevant expectation(s) directly.

Similarly, Eliezer's "count to 10 and get up" trick is also a "placebo effect", in that it operates by setting up the expectation that, "after I count to 10, I'm going to get up".

Comment deleted 21 May 2009 01:52:43AM [-]
Comment author: pjeby 21 May 2009 02:17:44AM 0 points [-]

An fMRI will tell you something different.

Really? There's a study where they compared those three things? And they controlled for whether the participants were actually any good at producing results with affirmations or LoA? If so, I'd love to read it.

No it isn't.

How do you figure that?

Comment author: SoullessAutomaton 19 May 2009 10:40:48PM 1 point [-]

There's also the question of to what extent the placebo effect is actually meaningful when "causing effects in the mind" is the goal.